[Liberator]

I'm afraid you folks are slightly mistaken.  Reagan won because he devised a rock-bottom simple strategy for ending the Red Threat.  He brought the economic might of the United States of America to bear and spent them into the ground.  That's why they "threw in the towel", they couldn't keep up with the spending packages that Reagan initiated while at the same time initiating the largest peacetime economic growth cycle in modern history.  Not to mention, the Soviet was genuinely afraid of SDI.  

When Reagan took office Inflation was at 21%(this is bad, BTW), Interest Rates were in the double digits and there was a general malaise on the nation.  When he left Inflation and Interest Rates were down and national morale was high.  He made it okay to be an American again.  More to the point, he did it all by sticking to his guns and not giving an inch.  

Therein lies the biggest problem with politics today; there is too much compromise.  Reagan was great because he didn't compromise, he showed the nation where he wanted to go and took us there.

Contrary to what you've heard, there is a Shining City on a Hill and we're it.

[Nico]

Rictor, Liberator: bull****.
The cold war ended because of the russian internal stuggles and the collapsing of USSR. And Reagan had nothing to do with that, mind you, USSR and USA had minimal economical bounds.
Where the **** do you learn history? On Cornflake adverts?

[Kosh]

The whole reason why interest rates were so high was because inflation was getting out of control. You can thank the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time (Paul Volker (sp?)) for increasing the interest rates so much and causing a recession. On the other hand it did drasticly decrease inflation.

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Nico
Where the **** do you learn history? On Cornflake adverts?

pah! that would be foolish
/*picks up cocoa puffs box to learn of the war of 1812*/

[Tiara]

I'm so glad certain people aren't my students in my history class. *shrugs*

[Gank]

Originally posted by Liberator
Contrary to what you've heard, there is a Shining City on a Hill and we're it.

Holy **** man you come out with some class a meaningless ****e.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Liberator

Therein lies the biggest problem with politics today; there is too much compromise.  Reagan was great because he didn't compromise, he showed the nation where he wanted to go and took us there.

Contrary to what you've heard, there is a Shining City on a Hill and we're it.

Hitler, Mao & Stalin didn't compromise either.  I'd hardly classify them as great men.

Frankly, you're full of pish.

[Flipside]

There'll be no Shining City outside our heads until we get one inside our heads.

It is true that Russia spent itself into oblivion keeping up with the USA, but it wasn't devised or a cunning plan or anything, as much as sheer bloody stupidity, on both sides. If American citizens realised just how much of their money has been piled into weapons that cannot be used for defensive purposes, only for attack, money that could have been spent on rebuilding your economy improving life for the lower 15% of society etc, I think you would be appalled.

[vyper]

Originally posted by aldo_14



Frankly, you're full of pish.

Ah the Glasgow input.

[Grey Wolf]

The reason that the USSR collapsed? Because it never was truly stable.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Flipside
If American citizens realised just how much of their money has been piled into weapons that cannot be used for defensive purposes, only for attack, money that could have been spent on rebuilding your economy improving life for the lower 15% of society etc, I think you would be appalled.

"People are poor because they did it to themselves, it's god's will! Praise the lord! Jesus CEO!"

The above statement is sadly what quite a few people believe...

Now, I'm not intending to turn this into a religious debate thread I'm just stating that there's quite a few people who are using their religion to justify their personal wealth. Damn Calvinists...

[Liberator]

People are poor because they are too damn shiftless to get a job that pays or move somewhere where they can.

[Ace]

"People are poor because they did it to themselves, it's god's will! Praise the lord! Jesus CEO!"



Now all that's left is the predestination bull...

[Kosh]

Maybe they can't afford to move? Maybe they don't have the credentials to get a job that pays well and cannot afford to get them?

[Grey Wolf]

Feel like insulting Venom today, Liberator?

[Flipside]

Not always, I agree, you have your percentage of leeches just as all state baseed societies do, my own included, but a lot of employment problems are caused through some very vicious circles, for example, in many poorer neighborhoods you fit in or are kicked down, that's gang culture for you. Teenagers in these areas have to fit in, and coupled with the need to be accepted, will often get involved in things they don't want to.
It's easy to say 'Well, they could have said 'no'', but the question is could they? Could you? Your Father is a junkie, your mother is seeing about 3 different men (to avoid confusion, I am talking of our fictional character here ), these people, whatever they are doing, are the closest thing in the world you have to friends, they depend on each other with their lives because they are all they have.
American Law is very tough and unforgiving, that's fine and good where needed, Britain could do with some more of it in places, but looking at American Cop Shows, they always seem to project the image 'Obey, or we'll kick your arse hard'.
Once you have a conviction for drugs or vandalism you will find it much much harder to get a job, and often cannot afford to move to where there is work (and why should you have to leave your home anyway?) your welfare pays for your rent and food and precious little else. Eventually, you marry, and have a kid, who grows up in exactly the same cycle. Once you are in it, it's very very hard to break out again

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Nico
Rictor, Liberator: bull****.
The cold war ended because of the russian internal stuggles and the collapsing of USSR. And Reagan had nothing to do with that, mind you, USSR and USA had minimal economical bounds.
Where the **** do you learn history? On Cornflake adverts?

the USSR collapsed because of domestic discontent and imperial overextenstion. What happened was, at the time, the Russian leadership said "**** it, we're done for", because of all these factors. I never, ever claimed that Gorbachev dismantled a prefectly healthy USSR cause he was a nice guy, they were down and out. Perhaps you might want to read what I said; just a thought.

The same is slowly happening to America. Granted, its not likely to all come crashing spectacuarly down, but in the modern world, America can't keep up this pace. Just think of what would happen if the Asian economy decided it liked the Euro better than the dollar...And then, they will have no one to blame but themselves, same as the Russians.

[Rictor]

Lib, listen to me very carefully. You can not place your nation, your people, your whatever, on a pedestal higher than anyone else, for no apparent reason, and still claim that you are of an objective opinion.

Imagine if a Martian landed on Earth today, read all of human history, right up to the present day. I mean, the straght facts, no rhetoric. Would he consider America to be Camelot the Shining City? Hell no.

You believe that America is this and that, despite historical evidence to the contrary. How can you claim, for example, that America stands for freedom, when it has overthrown countless foreign governments, democratically elected ones at that, and to this day continues to oppose self determination around the world. This is just one example. If the US forgoes self-determination in favour of its national interests, than you can not possibly claim it stands for freedom. Simple.

The same can be said for peace, justice and all those good things. When you arrive at a situtation when history contradicts you prejudiced opinion, either positive or negative, ten you can either decide that yes, you were wrong, and change your opinion, or you can develop an elaborate set of lies and rationalization to compensate for the discrepancy. The latter leads to nothing but ignorance.

I'm not even using this as an attack. Its pretty clear that arguing to win is a pointless excerise. Arguing to learn, now thats a different story.

[Kosh]

Pride comes before a fall.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Kosh
Maybe they can't afford to move? Maybe they don't have the credentials to get a job that pays well and cannot afford to get them?

That kind of occured to me as well.........