Author Topic: Bad SONY!  (Read 12383 times)

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Offline Kamikaze

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No, it had a lower end P3.

Wrong.

Quote from: Kosh
You're missing the point. If the XBox 360 was put in that type of environment, it wouldn't crash either. If this wonder Mac of yours was put into the same confined space that people put their new Xboxes into, it would surely overheat and crash.

The difference being that the quad-core G5 isn't meant to be put in an entertainment center cabinet. Note that there have been reports of Xbox 360s overheating on carpet in an open space, so it *will* crash in "that type of environment".
« Last Edit: November 25, 2005, 03:52:57 pm by Kamikaze »
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline aldo_14

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IIRC the Xbox processor was a modified P3 which used (in a sort of vague non-specific summary) a reduced (16 stage) pipeline (as the >16 stage pipelines used by the commercial processors were purely used to aritificially increase the advertised clock speed; pipelines over 15/16 stages pretty much lose any theoretical benefit because of the error handling required), had a number of specialised floating point operations added to the instruction set, and IIRc used a copperwire core (greater conductivity....may have mixed up the specific materials here).

(http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:MNXVsYp6EeAJ:www.2002.arspentia.org/8lb3oz/xbox+arspentia+xbox+8lb3oz&hl=en&client=firefox-a)

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Your link says it's a mobile celeron. It's almost the same as a P3, but not quite. (Though all celerons are basically modified pentiums anyway. Modern celerons are just reject P4s.)

Quote
All of the Celeron's that Intel makes nowadays are aparently identical to the Pentium 3, and they all use the Coppermine core. There is one major difference, the Celeron has 128KB of cache. Intel's 733MHz mobile Celeron chips all have a 133MHz front side bus and 128KB of L2 cache identical to that in the Xbox. The chip inside the Xbox is the equivalent to that of a Mobile Celeron (the mobile Celeron has 8 way associative cache).

BTW: The Xbox processor had a 16 stage pipeline? That's rather surprising, as I thought the P3 architecture had a more normal number of pipelines unlike the insane P4s (20 stage pipelines, eek!).  The Wikipedia article on the P3 talks about "instruction pipeline stalls" in the Coppermine, which seems to suggest a long pipeline too. Weird.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2005, 08:02:50 pm by Kamikaze »
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Deepblue

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About the heat... As aldo already pointed out, it seems to be the PSU that's overheating, as people have been able to fix crashes by suspending the PSU in the air over a shoebox thus allowing greater heat dissapation. The console itself is very good about heat dissapation it seems with heat pipes and ventillation, though the fans are a bit loud (not as loud as the original Xbox however).

 
  

Offline Mefustae

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About the heat... As aldo already pointed out, it seems to be the PSU that's overheating, as people have been able to fix crashes by suspending the PSU in the air over a shoebox thus allowing greater heat dissapation. The console itself is very good about heat dissapation it seems with heat pipes and ventillation, though the fans are a bit loud (not as loud as the original Xbox however).
So, what you're saying is; unlike every single other console that ever came before it, the Xbox360 cannot simply be placed on the carpet (as i'm sure many, many console owners do, including myself), but it must be suspended in the freakin' air or else it will overheat. If that doesn't scream 'rushed release' or 'major design flaw', I damn well don't know what else would...

 

Offline aldo_14

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Your link says it's a mobile celeron. It's almost the same as a P3, but not quite. (Though all celerons are basically modified pentiums anyway. Modern celerons are just reject P4s.)

Quote
All of the Celeron's that Intel makes nowadays are aparently identical to the Pentium 3, and they all use the Coppermine core. There is one major difference, the Celeron has 128KB of cache. Intel's 733MHz mobile Celeron chips all have a 133MHz front side bus and 128KB of L2 cache identical to that in the Xbox. The chip inside the Xbox is the equivalent to that of a Mobile Celeron (the mobile Celeron has 8 way associative cache).

BTW: The Xbox processor had a 16 stage pipeline? That's rather surprising, as I thought the P3 architecture had a more normal number of pipelines unlike the insane P4s (20 stage pipelines, eek!).  The Wikipedia article on the P3 talks about "instruction pipeline stalls" in the Coppermine, which seems to suggest a long pipeline too. Weird.

Um... I'm not sure, actually.  I think it may have actually had 10 stage int and 16 stage fp pipelines, but I'm sure I remember reading at the time that the Xbox processor had a reduced size pipeline from the retail version, i.e. what I did wrote earlier.  But what I've been reading suggests the P3 was only ever 10 stages, which may mean I was talking out my arse :) there.  There was definately a pipeline modification made to the xbox version, though; there'd have to be the for new fp ops, I think.

That page I linked to, incidentally, was part of something I worked on for uni (although I worked on the Gamecube stuff - here).  So I'm pretty sure it's correct for the time, which was pre-release; IIRC the pipeline stage numbers for the xbox would have come from comparing them to the GC and absolute bastard that was the PS2 arch.

About the heat... As aldo already pointed out, it seems to be the PSU that's overheating, as people have been able to fix crashes by suspending the PSU in the air over a shoebox thus allowing greater heat dissapation. The console itself is very good about heat dissapation it seems with heat pipes and ventillation, though the fans are a bit loud (not as loud as the original Xbox however).

It's not 'very good about heat dissipation' if all it's done is move the overheating parts outside.  That's like saying my Pc is very good at heat dissipation because I moved the motherboard to sit in the fridge.  If the problem is actually this (rather large AFAIK) PSU, then that would strike me as a botch - especially if they put it outside the machine for exactly that purpose.  It'd also be something very easy to test (if perhaps not to fix), and I can't help but wonder if they decided to rush the solution by just sticking it outside the machine, in order to meet the launch target.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2005, 08:14:07 am by aldo_14 »

 

Offline BlackDove

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Sounds like it.

 

Offline Deepblue

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They stuck it outside the machine to keep the console itself from being fatter than it already is.

 

Offline BlackDove

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That doesn't sound like it.

 

Offline aldo_14

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That doesn't sound like it.

I dunno.  It did actually occur to me that they might have deliberately done so in order to have the best (i.e. most marketable) design; on the other hand I think it's very silly to actually design something on the basis of looks ahead of actually making sure the entire device will fit within your, well, design.  I mean, if the crashes are PSU related, it effectively means they've compromised stability (namely the ability to put the PSU within a heat/ventilation-controlled environment like, for example, similar spec - if larger in size - PCs) in order to achieve an artistic effect.

 

Offline BlackDove

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As far as I'm concerned the design itself is atrocious. It's as if someone with no sense of aesthetics designed the box. The only reason I would figure it looks the way it does is because they wanted something edgy that wasn't black as was the vogue fad with the second installment of the consoles. The only white appliances I have are the stove and the refridgirator, and I can tell you for sure that if I was to buy the console, it wouldn't stand next to either of the two. As far as marketability goes, anyone with any sense of style will find the box to be butt ugly. The only saving grace is the fact that people will be able to customize the look it would seem, by replacing the front part or some stupid **** like that. Obviously they didn't have enough time to think about it, so they just chose the cheapest design possible and ran with it. After all, everyone can understand the need to save on the production costs.

*ahem*

I think I see Deepblue coming to tell me how the box is beautiful and the handcontroller comfortable and easy to use. **** I better run before my eyes start to bleed.

 

Offline Deepblue

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I just called it fat... It's quite a monstrosity.

 

Offline vyper

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"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Deepblue

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lol!

They did one of those lists for every platform to make their other readers feel good. Some of the lists are quite weak... See the top 10 reasons to wait for a PS3. One of the reasons is "you can still preorder it." WTH???

 
 

Offline Black Wolf

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Wow. Without clicking on it, I looked at the topic name and I thought - rootkit. Gotta be. Then I looked at the poster and thought, no, Sony/PS3 bashing thread with at least one reference to how the 360 is better than it.

No people, I'm not psychich. Deepblue's a dumbass.
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Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline BlackDove

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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Also, before you get to the fantastic idea of "OMGZORZ WHY WOULD YOU MOVE IT WHILE IT'S ON, WTFHAX!", try thinking about people having kids and wives/sisters/whatevers who clean and aren't that into the XBOXAR TEKNOLOGAY!.

Seriously

Quote
Oh, man! Now I REALLY want* an Xbox 360!

* Don't want at all.

Truth.

 

Offline Ransom

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Er, well that'll happen in just about any high speed drive.

 

Offline BlackDove

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Not in the one that is expected to be shifted around.