[Jetmech Jr.]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-execution13dec13,0,799154.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Eh, a little late, but what the hell.

Discuss.

[Flipside]

Yeah, heard about this, as much as I hate to say the the Governator was right, it wasn't his place to second-guess the court system, particuarly after the amount of hearings and appeals there have been over this man.

I'm not a fan of the Death sentence anyway, it could well be that the State of California has indeed just murdered an innocent man, I have no way of knowing, but it is up to the courts to make that decision not Arnie, and, quite frankly, if it does turn out that he was innocent, then that should land on the courts, not Arnie, though I don't doubt it would land on him.

[Jetmech Jr.]

True enough. I found it interesting people were ragging on Arnold for not granting the guy clemency, especially considering that IIRC, to be elligible for clemency you have to admit to being guilty of the crime. Whch Williams did not.

[Annorax]

True enough. I found it interesting people were ragging on Arnold for not granting the guy clemency, especially considering that IIRC, to be elligible for clemency you have to admit to being guilty of the crime. Whch Williams did not.

This is why all the appeals and clemency BS needs to be abolished. He was convicted and wasted taxpayer money remaining alive for 26 years after being convicted. If guilt has been proven, why allow the guilty to remain alive after the trial? Cops and bailiffs have guns, and courthouses have front yards that can easily accomodate unmarked graves. I'm not seeing why we waste so many resources on coddling murderers, rapists, and music downloaders...

[Flipside]

Note to Self : Reduce Annorax's Bosch Beer rations.

It could be argued that Williams claimed innocence because he was innocent, but even then it's never down to simply 'Yes you did!' 'No I didn't'. Courts do take the passing of the death sentence pretty seriously, and I suspect there must have been a fairly weighty body of evidence to suggest that he was in fact guilty. Either way, it still boils down to courts and juries, not governors and famous personalities.

[Deepblue]

Founder of the Cripts... Innocent???

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

This guy deserved to die.

[Flipside]

Well, 'innocent of the crimes of which he was accused' at least... however as I said before, there is a great deal more to the death sentence than 'It was you wot dunnit'.

[WMCoolmon]

True enough. I found it interesting people were ragging on Arnold for not granting the guy clemency, especially considering that IIRC, to be elligible for clemency you have to admit to being guilty of the crime. Whch Williams did not.

This is why all the appeals and clemency BS needs to be abolished. He was convicted and wasted taxpayer money remaining alive for 26 years after being convicted. If guilt has been proven, why allow the guilty to remain alive after the trial? Cops and bailiffs have guns, and courthouses have front yards that can easily accomodate unmarked graves. I'm not seeing why we waste so many resources on coddling murderers, rapists, and music downloaders...

If you're wrong about the verdict, and some new evidence comes out that proves this, you can always release someone wrongly convicted from jail. If you've already executed them...

[Grey Wolf]

I'm rather against the death penalty myself, but I'd have to say this man never deserved to be free again.

Also, Annorax: You're proposing death penalties for music downloaders?

[Kosh]

Founder of the Cripts... Innocent???

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

This guy deserved to die.

On the other hand he wrote many childrens books urging young people to stay away from his creation. Obiously he repented. But isn't that the entire point of going to jail? I guess some people are too bloodthirsty to realize that.


On the other hand Texas is famous for executing innocent people.

[Grey Wolf]

California, however, is not, having only executed 12 people since the death penalty was reinstated.

[an0n]

He didn't co-found the Crips.

Washington founded the Avenue Babies in 1969, which became the Avenue Cribs and eventually the Crips. Then Williams joined up around '71, changed the name to the Westside Crips and started expanding the gang to include all the smaller gangs - creating the huge alliance of gangs which are known today in general terms as the Crips.

The whole thing started out as a way to keep from being ****ed-up by the pre-existing gangs and to organise against burglary and robberies in their area. Basically a vigilante group.

But once it had expanded to cover most of the gangs in the LA area it started using it's vast resources to move more heavily into drug distribution - and Tookie went to jail just intime for the new heads of the gang to start using that relatively minor drug distribution network to proliferate crack amongst the inner city populations. This helped them expand to become a national gang and totally ****ed every black American's chance at true equality - but it was done while Tookie was in prison.

And that's why he started writing all the children's books. He joined the gang when it was ****ty, but only really wanted to protect his own ****. When they got large enough that the smaller rival gangs allied together to form the Bloods, so they could mount a realistic defence, his confidence in the idea took a huge ****ing hit. Then while he was in prison the gang basically ass-raped the civil rights movement by turning half the black population into crackheads.

Thus, he's not some big evil crime boss.

And while he probably didn't kill the people they say he did, he undoubtedly ****ed up a lot of Bloods and probably killed at least a few dozen people.

[aldo_14]

I'm always baffled by the attitude that killing someone suddenly becomes ok if they're criminals.

 I mean, it's not like you exempt people from punishment for a crime if they rob/rape/murded/etc a 'bad' person, is it?

[Annorax]

I'm rather against the death penalty myself, but I'd have to say this man never deserved to be free again.

Also, Annorax: You're proposing death penalties for music downloaders?

Music downloaders and other intellectual property "criminals" tend to get stiffer sentences than violent offenders like rapists these days. Have you seen this article, where the music associations are planning to have new laws passed that would include significant jail sentences for hosting and/or downloading written lyrics? The death sentence for music downloaders was intended as slight exaggeration, given the way things are going these days. Between the lyric bull****, the thousands of people being randomly selected by the RIAA for lawsuits, and the other trends toward a 1984-esque society, I believe I wasn't out of line.

[Kosh]

I'm always baffled by the attitude that killing someone suddenly becomes ok if they're criminals.

 I mean, it's not like you exempt people from punishment for a crime if they rob/rape/murded/etc a 'bad' person, is it?

I think that wife beaters are rodents to be exterminated. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with me and they get light sentences, if any at all.

So I guess it just depends on the person.

[aldo_14]

I'm always baffled by the attitude that killing someone suddenly becomes ok if they're criminals.

 I mean, it's not like you exempt people from punishment for a crime if they rob/rape/murded/etc a 'bad' person, is it?

I think that wife beaters are rodents to be exterminated. Unfortunately not everyone agrees with me and they get light sentences, if any at all.

So I guess it just depends on the person.

Persumably you don't mean 'here' as China, what with the whole - shoot people for dissent, send their familes a bill for the bullet, and then harvest the skin for collagen to use in beauty products - type arrangement they have.

[Deepblue]

Founder of the Cripts... Innocent???

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

This guy deserved to die.

On the other hand he wrote many childrens books urging young people to stay away from his creation. Obiously he repented. But isn't that the entire point of going to jail? I guess some people are too bloodthirsty to realize that.


On the other hand Texas is famous for executing innocent people.

Actually he only wrote one 8 page childrens book. With less words than the entirety of this thread. He's only repentant because he doesn't want to die, not because he's sorry for what he did.

EDIT: Whoops, I geuss it's time to start switching tenses.

[Kosh]

He's only repentant because he doesn't want to die, not because he's sorry for what he did.

Being repentant for founding a gang wasn't going to save his life. Why? Because he wasn't in jail for that. He was in jail for something that he never admitted to doing.

[Prophet]

Don't put too much weight on what he said or did in jail. People can lie, people can act. That is why it is irrelevant if a murderer or rapist repents. What he has done is a bad thing and must be punished. No matter if you are the Pope and writen dozens of childrens books.

Don't take me as a bloodthirsty bastard. It isn't my job to judge if a person killed 10 people because he wanted to, or because he didn't know how to put out the flamethrower. But if he did indeed do it on purpose, he deserves punishment even if he did invent cold fusion.

[karajorma]

While I am completely against the death penalty I've got to agree with Prophet on this one. You shouldn't be able to duck your sentence (whatever it was) simply because you say "I'm so sorry I did it." I've always been against this time off for good behavior crap. They should give you more time for bad behaviour.