[Prophet]

I would respond to the criticism on its own merit instead of bringing up all the attitude. I don't think the two posts under scrutiny were just complaining about everything and really deserved this sort of response (well, pecenipicek's comment on the Erinyes was definitely OTT, but most of the other points made were still worth discussing), even though I don't agree with what they're saying as far as the current models go.

Thanks CP5670
That means a lot to me. And you even disagree with me without getting angry!

Stratt's point was this: "Where were all of these opinions and complaints when the models were being made?"
And he's right. Modellers get such little feedback from the community when we're showing off models, and as a result we finish the models as we think they might look. Then everyone start's flailing their arms and screaming herasy because it differs a little from the 500 poly model that was in game.

Consider that not all people are able/want to check these boards daily. And when not checking the boards daily, you end up with lots of unread topics. And then you may miss a topic alltogether. Or if you are busy, you may have to just leave some topics unread. And when you see that some model has a part on it that is clearly different, it understandably attracts attention. Then couple of people (everyone, as you say) ask about it, and they get stoned to death?

Another of my peeves is when people take a model that has little to no detail on it (Orion, Aeolus, etc.) and compare the high poly job it gets to that of, say, the Fenris, which has the best and largest maps of any ship and that lets you *clearly* see what should be added to it.
Those kinds of posts aren't helpful... If people don't want any divergence from the initial design they shouild stick with the original models. Anything we do to try to add detail and interest to the meshes is almost always met with people screaming that the meshes are changing too much. And it's annoying at times, frankly.

You really are touchy are you?
This topic has been about small things in couple of models. So don't you come screaming (that is the word you used) about how people thing meshes are crap.

[WeatherOp]

You know this arguement should be about the people who like the stuff we make then at us. As Col. Fishguts said, If I wanted to add a big pink bow to the top of the Moloch I would. Whether you guys would like it I don't know( I hope not. ) But, the thing is, we can't force you to like it. But, majority wins everytime.

[Taristin]

Stratt's point was this: "Where were all of these opinions and complaints when the models were being made?"
And he's right. Modellers get such little feedback from the community when we're showing off models, and as a result we finish the models as we think they might look. Then everyone start's flailing their arms and screaming herasy because it differs a little from the 500 poly model that was in game.

Consider that not all people are able/want to check these boards daily. And when not checking the boards daily, you end up with lots of unread topics. And then you may miss a topic alltogether. Or if you are busy, you may have to just leave some topics unread. And when you see that some model has a part on it that is clearly different, it understandably attracts attention. Then couple of people (everyone, as you say) ask about it, and they get stoned to death?

That is not the modeller's fault.  If you don't show up and offer your opinion then your opinion isn't able to be considerred. And requesting changes after the model is done will only get you ignored, since all of the work that had to be done to get the model done is not wanted to be repeated.

Another of my peeves is when people take a model that has little to no detail on it (Orion, Aeolus, etc.) and compare the high poly job it gets to that of, say, the Fenris, which has the best and largest maps of any ship and that lets you *clearly* see what should be added to it.
Those kinds of posts aren't helpful... If people don't want any divergence from the initial design they shouild stick with the original models. Anything we do to try to add detail and interest to the meshes is almost always met with people screaming that the meshes are changing too much. And it's annoying at times, frankly.

You really are touchy are you?
This topic has been about small things in couple of models. So don't you come screaming (that is the word you used) about how people thing meshes are crap.

1) I wasn't screaming. Stating politely my opinion. You are free to not comment, you know?
2) It does bother me, yes, that so many complain that the models diverge too much from the original, be it a triangle with thrusters, or a cube with other cubes sticking out of it, that the original model was.
3) And I never said they were crap. Is someone's true feelings finally coming out?

[BlackDove]

This thread can only degenerate without any real point to be had. However you slice the unsatisfaction with anything that has gone through public opinion trials, the answer is always "Don't like it - do it yourself". That's the end of discussion.

Might I suggest a lock?

[Solatar]

Seconded.

EDIT: Didn't want to add another post to further the life of this thread, but in response to the one below this. I'd like to add that I love all the new hi-poly ships. Maybe I'm just weird, but I love the new Orion, the Herc, the Apollo, the Medusa, etc. (I'm infatuated with fs1...)

[MrBig101]

Well, before it does get locked, I'd just like to say that I like all the HTL ships and you guys are doing a fine job  .

But, Different skins corresponding to damaged ships... there's an idea...

[Prophet]

That is not the modeller's fault.  If you don't show up and offer your opinion then your opinion isn't able to be considerred. And requesting changes after the model is done will only get you ignored, since all of the work that had to be done to get the model done is not wanted to be repeated.

There is no one blaming the modellers. You are completely missing the point.

1) I wasn't screaming. Stating politely my opinion. You are free to not comment, you know?
2) It does bother me, yes, that so many complain that the models diverge too much from the original, be it a triangle with thrusters, or a cube with other cubes sticking out of it, that the original model was.
3) And I never said they were crap. Is someone's true feelings finally coming out?

1. You were the first to mention the word. And ofcourse I could see that you were not being hostile, but I was angered by your statement that people are screaming the models are bad. They aren't, and they aren't.
2. Ok. It bothers you too then?
3. Do not go putting words in my mouth! (so to speak)
I have again and again very clearly stated that I do like the new models. But someone keeps turning this thread in to a attack against the models and modellers.

I was, at first, interested to know why some designs were changed so that it was obvious no matter how few polys the original model had. But since I cant express my point clearly enought (or you can't or won't see it) there is nothing I can do. Yet again nothing good came from this. Case closed. Have a merry christmas.

[WMCoolmon]

If anyone decides to have a shot at working on the existing models: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,120.0.html

Part of the reason that threads on upgrading retail art were moved there was so that people could find, keep track of, and discuss them in one place without having to search all across the modding and Gen. Freespace forums.

[Selectah]

A weird thread, this one. Kinda reminds me of Field Of Dreams, although only the negative part. Let's see..., hmm.. Some pretty darn quotable stuff here, boys and girls. For instance, "if you haven't posted about this before, your post doesn't count". Wow. So there's an optimum moment in the space/time continuum when posts can be made? Wow. Posting after that moment nullifies a persons opinion? Wow. I gotta hand it to ya.

Oh ya, the Field Of Dreams stuff, you ask? "Build it, they will come." That's the quote, anyways. I wonder if anyone of you guys're familiar w/ the term neophilia? It's a medical term depicting a fetish for everything that's labeled 'new'. A person suffering from neophilia considers everything that's new to be the absolute best, sacrosanct and above criticism. Oh btw, a neophile is ill, y'know. Just a thing to keep in mind, I guess.

That said, seemingly some of the HT&L models are hi-polied just because. Oh ya, I agree w/ the OP.


Merry christmas to all who celebrate it!

Cordially,
-Selectah

[Taristin]

A weird thread, this one. Kinda reminds me of Field Of Dreams, although only the negative part. Let's see..., hmm.. Some pretty darn quotable stuff here, boys and girls. For instance, "if you haven't posted about this before, your post doesn't count". Wow. So there's an optimum moment in the space/time continuum when posts can be made? Wow. Posting after that moment nullifies a persons opinion? Wow. I gotta hand it to ya.

Not that it doesn't count, but that it will fall on deaf ears, as the model in question is finished and distributed, and not likely to be changed.


That said, this thread was motioned to be closed twice, and i think I shall grant the motion. If Flipside thinks it should be open, he's more than welcome to reopen it.

[Flipside]

It's been hovering on the edge for a while, so probably best if I don't.

At the end of the day, the whole FSU's motto is 'if you don't want it, don't install it'. And another good motto is 'Can't please everyone'