Author Topic: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut  (Read 8798 times)

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
I have the latest Cat drivers (5.13) but the opengl drivers neve updated. Anyway, I updated my FS_Open and I don't get the message and can run in open gl now so there's no problem, though I would like to know how to update them, I want a nice shiny opengl 2.0!
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Offline knn

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
Could you post a screenshot of whatever is telling you your ogl version?
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
You have openGL 2.0 most likely. FS2 or FRED had it's own version of the Y2K bug where cause it wasn't checking anything before the decimal point it would think that 2.0 was 1.0 and therefore not good enough to run with.
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Offline Fineus

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
However, I went into advanced graphics settings under properties on my desktop and modified the OpenGL settings to have some Anti-Aliasing and such so now it looks even better than D3D
I just gave this a go myself (usually I have my OGL/D3D settings to "application preference" but forcing 4x AA with OGL produced beautiful results. Nice tip!

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
I also notice that shimmering effect on ships at long distances (I think that's what you mean by "graininess") but haven't found a way to remove it completely no matter what I try. It's not due to the crappy default Nvidia AF either, since turning that off or using high quality / LOD clamp mode doesn't seem to do anything. It's actually more noticeable in FSO than any other game I have.

I think I'm going to fix OpenGL so that it never minimizes. I would instead just switch between fullscreen and windowed modes (probably dropping back to the nearest standard resolution when going from fullscreen to windowed). This would allow Alt-Enter switching between windowed and fullscreen modes too. The constant minimizing is just plain irritating.

That works for me. I basically like to leave FRED2 open in the background and go and fix any mission bug I find immediately, so I don't forget it later.

 
Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
I am trying ogl now (I have a radeon 9800pro), but how do you use -ogl_spec and -ambient_factor?  Do you just put them on the command line, something like "-ambient_factor 75" ? 
Also, what is a good value to use for -ogl_spec?  Did not see anything in wiki about these values.

 

Offline Fineus

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
Do you just put them on the command line, something like "-ambient_factor 75" ?
Yes, that's exactly it :)

 

Offline taylor

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
Also, what is a good value to use for -ogl_spec?  Did not see anything in wiki about these values.
-ogl_spec was only supposed to be a temporary option until someone comes up with values that more closely match the D3D affect.  No one has though so it's still in there.  Basically all it does is specify how tight/bright the specular light will be.  Lower values create a wider light, which is also dimmer.  Higher values create a more focused light, and get brighter.  The range is 0 to 128 with the default being 80, so use that to help determine how you would like to adjust it.

 

Offline Fineus

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
Curiously I get an "Unrecognised command line parameter" whenever I try and use that function...

Running Launcher 5.3 and FS2 Open 3.6.7

 

Offline Taristin

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
Works fine for me. But I like it where it is, with ambince turned down to .75, personally.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
Quote
To me, D3D is and obsolete API: it supports one platform and OGL outperforms it even there, plus it's uglier to program (that's just my personal opinion though, some people can't stand the extension system in OGL).
Rant off

It is unfortunate that in the next generation of Windows OGL will merely be "emulated" (meaning it will probably run slower than hell).
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline taylor

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
It is unfortunate that in the next generation of Windows OGL will merely be "emulated" (meaning it will probably run slower than hell).
That's for the MS native driver though.  Video card manufacturers will still provide there own OpenGL layer (ICD).  The ICD isn't the perfect option but for fullscreen games nothing will be different than before.  In windowed mode it will likely (temporarily) disable compositing support for Windows but that shouldn't be a too big of a deal, and there will probably be work-arounds for that before long.  Using the MS OGL will give you OpenGL 1.3 functionality (though I don't think extensions are supported) but you'll barely be able to run FS2_Open with it anyway.  You'll need to use the full OpenGL ICD from your video card drivers, or use D3D directly.  MS OpenGL support sucks, and it always has, so is there is no real change here. 

 

Offline knn

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
The OpenGL in Vista *BETA* is a wrapper to D3D, version 1.4 and no extensions (this means that the function set will only include core 1.4 functions. Which sucks for games, of course).
And about half as fast, of course.
ICDs will work, as taylor said. But if Microshi Microsoft provides IHVs the info necessary to write drivers that work with the Vista desktop, they could easily do it. I'm guessing that MS just didn't want to do this in the beta stage yet, and someone simply panicked, and thought that MS is going to try to kill OGL (this wouldn't be their first attempt). First of all, in the EU at least, MS can be forced to provide software developers the code required to make their applications fully compatible with the operating system (just like MS software). Second, OpenGL is still the api of choice in every field except games. MS put OGL support into Windows NT to lure customers who needed OGL for professional simulation away from other operating systems. But, at the same time, they wanted OpenGL to stay in that field and never come to the gaming market, where they wanted D3D to be the only api (which was optimised for software rendering, and sometimes this origin caused problems when 3d accelerators came out, e.g. the way D3D stored vertex information was not optimised for modern 3d cards, while OpenGL's method was). So they told everyone that OpenGL was too slow for games, and was good for CAD only, whereas D3D is not as precise as OGL, but faster, and therefore well suited for game development. Which is of course BS.
D3D has been improved to the point where the difference in performance is very small, and depends more on the game. (I'm guessing FSO is optimised for OGL, right?). BUT all that effort put into making a software 3d api into a modern 3d api comparable to OGL in performance is just a waste. And I still hate D3D's approach to coding, where you have to decide what code will be best suited for the target machine. OpenGL does that for you (you give hints to the driver, like GL_Hint_Fastest or GL_Hint_Nicest). This requires a good driver of course, but NVidia has a habit of making good ones. And the less code you write, the less you have to debug, and the faster you'll be done.
If I had to choose between compositing and nice glass effects and opengl, I think you'll guess which one I'd choose. But I really doubt I'll have to make that choice
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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
Two things.

D3D9 and below will also be going through WGF.  So it's in the same boat as OGL.  OF course, the new WGF system (aka D3D10) will have the access chewy gooey graphics cards.


Second.  How do I enable antialiasing in OGL mode without having it explode the videos?  I'm using the CVS 1/16 build with the beta MediaVP.  There's no built-in option in the launcher to enable OGL AA and forcing it in the control panel makes the videos just display a black screen.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
I'd be very interested in an OGL AA option as well. The control panel one doesn't seem to work very well.
-C

 
Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old Chestnut
I used to be able to "force" AA using Nvidia's control panel under OGL with the 10/28 build. All builds afterward disabled it.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Radeon Drivers and Shine Mapping... That Old C
I also recently noticed that forcing the AA is not working anymore. None of the modes have any effect. They work in D3D mode though.