[wgemini]

The ending of FS2 bothers me ever since I finished it. It just doesn't make sense that the Shivans would abruptly terminate an on-going invasion and jump out. Destroying half of their fleet in the process. Could it be that the Shivans did not cause the supernova. Instead, the Juggernauts were simply resupplying around the sun in preparation for the final assaults. The SOC, weary about the impending doom, executed a covert operation that blew up the star. The command would never acknowledge it of course. Millions of people as well as score of battle ships were destroyed.

What do you think?

[TrashMan]

Unlikely. If GTVA knew that they can blow up the star they would pull out as many ships as tehy can. It makes no sense to sacrifice half the fleet if you don't have to. And to belive that the SOC has the power to blow up a star??? I personalyl beleve it to be too far stretched for ANY race in ANY Sci-fi.

On the other hand it might be possible that the shivans didn't intentionally blow up the star (failed experiment? miscalcualtion?), or that someone or something else is behind it.

[Prophet]

No.

Why would SOC blow up the star, when the GTVA was about to seal off the system anyway? And what requires the juggernauts to do their "resupply" at the same time? They couldn't do it a couple at a time while others would be kicking GTVA butt, but had to gather together around the star?
Furthermore. Blowing up a star is no simple task. Might work in Star Trek, but I doubt that SOC had those kind of resources available. Should the tecnology be available, wich I also doubt.

This is what I think.
No.

The theory about Shivans making an error is worth considering however...

[Shade]

The FS2 ending cutscene seemed pretty conclusive to me, leaving little doubt that the Shivans did trigger the supernova. Plus, if the GTVA really had the means to blow up a star, I have a feeling that Into the Lions Den would have had quite a different objective than simply scouting

What we can speculate on though, is why they did it, if it was even intentional... and whether the majority of their fleet was in fact destroyed. It's entirely possible that a lot of those which were not engaged in direct combat with GTVA vessels escaped.

[Setekh]

Hey wgemini, welcome to HLP. Interesting theory, though not without its holes (as pointed out above). There are many suggestions in the FS2 ending cutscene that the Shivans intentionally detonated the star (e.g. Petrarch's philosophical reflections on what they might have been trying to do), but you never know; the SOC always pop up in places we don't expect.

[Rand al Thor]

I'm of the same opinion about SOC causing the nova, and by that I mean I don't think they did it.

For some reason I never really considered that the shivans didn't blow it up, or that they might have been trying to prevent it from exploding. Maybe that could have something to do with 'the greater problem' [:V:] (the :V: is a guess, what is it to get the icon on the new forums?) talked about.

But then that sounds quite a bit like how the mindgames team must've arrived at their plot.

[FireCrack]

It's possible that the shivans accidently triggered the supernova, as in whatever they were trying to do hasa  % chance of failing and causing a supernova...

[StratComm]

I find that equally unlikely, given the behavior of the Sathanas fleet right before the star blows.  The way most of them jump out right before Capella goes up is a pretty clear indication that the shivans had been planning to get out of there in a hurry.  More likely, they cared nothing about the fate of their lesser ships once the primary mission with Capella - whatever that was - was completed.

[NGTM-1R]

Directly, the Shivans.

Indirectly, it's all Alpha 1's fault for blowing up those freighters during "Their Finest Hour".

[aldo_14]

I find that equally unlikely, given the behavior of the Sathanas fleet right before the star blows.  The way most of them jump out right before Capella goes up is a pretty clear indication that the shivans had been planning to get out of there in a hurry.  More likely, they cared nothing about the fate of their lesser ships once the primary mission with Capella - whatever that was - was completed.

Not necessarily; you're assuming that if it did go wrong the Shivans wouldn't be able to tell until it's too late (for the Sathani, etc) to escape.  I'd say intentional supernova is the most plausible (it would be a pretty odd cutscene to have otherwise), but I don't think the 'accident' theory is as unlikely as you suggest.

[Kie99]

I'm of the same opinion about SOC causing the nova, and by that I mean I don't think they did it.

For some reason I never really considered that the shivans didn't blow it up, or that they might have been trying to prevent it from exploding. Maybe that could have something to do with 'the greater problem' [:V:] (the :V: is a guess, what is it to get the icon on the new forums?) talked about.

But then that sounds quite a bit like how the mindgames team must've arrived at their plot.

IIRC Mindgames says the Shivans blew up Capella in order to kill several Starborn that were hanging around it.

The code for the Icon is :v:

[karajorma]

Yep. Although the Shivans actually trying and failing to prevent something else blowing up Capella is another possibility I find interesting

[Prophet]

Lets assume for a moment that Shivans were trying to prevent the supernova... Ok. Why would they do that? Why try to prevent it when they could have their juggernaut fleet in GD and blast everything that tries to come trought. And just let the hairless monkeys and their fis luvin' buddies fry in the bang. I see 3 possible reasons.
a) They want to personally blow Alpha 1 & co to pieces. And since we may speculate that the jump nodes would collapse in the event of the supernova, thus cutting the Shivans off from GTVA, they have a reason to save Capella.
b) They couldn't care less about the GTVA. But know that the explosion of Capella would have some other effect on a bigger scale. And want to prevent some entirely unknown force from blowing up the star.
c) They just don't want to see good star to go to waste. Perhaps they like the color, or it would harm subspace or sumthin'. But they want to save Capella for personal reasons.

Those are the best 3 reasons I could come up with that would warrant the shivers to save Capella. And as you can see, they ain't too good. So I belive Shivans either wanted to blow up the star. Or tried to something else, but screwed up...


What if the Shivans did some ultrafraggingimportant stuff at/to the star, that had some % chance to cause the supernova. Perhaps they deemed the possibility for it so small that they cambled on it (if the possibility for supernova had been 15-20%, and angry Terrans and Vasudans running around they might have just gone with the "to hell with it" attitude). Or then maybe the Shivans just didn't care if a supernova occurs. You know, **** happens and get on with it.

[karajorma]

I doubt that the Shivans cared enough about the GTVA to save Capella for them but there are a bunch of other reasons that do fit.

1) If Capella is physically close to Shivan space the destruction of Capella could do severe damage to their systems.
2) The destruction of Capella could cause changes to the subspace network.
3) The destruction of Capella might have caused a black hole that was the entry point for something dangerous enough that the Shivans wouldn't want to give them the chance of getting into their galaxy.

[Prophet]

There's a but. If Shivans didn't do it, who did? Not Terrans nor Vasudans. No locigal reason because of the jumpnode collapse plan. If the star would be that old, GTVA would know and command would have mentioned it (we know the approx. age of our sun today, and natural supernovas do not occur that fast). Ancients didn't do it, because offically they are dead.
And thought I admit that the theory sounds interesting, I seriously doubt it was someone *else*. I don't belive that would bring another race in to the play.

The most obvious one to blame are the Shivans. They have the means (technology) and the will (they are pesky aliens!) to do it.

[NGTM-1R]

I doubt that the Shivans cared enough about the GTVA to save Capella for them but there are a bunch of other reasons that do fit.

Actually, since the Shivans were demonstrably not interested in the destruction of the GTVA, the "It's for your own good." concept has some weight.

[karajorma]

The most obvious one to blame are the Shivans. They have the means (technology) and the will (they are pesky aliens!) to do it.

Doesn't mean that they are only possible ones just because they are the most obvious. One point that is worth never  forgetting is that we have no idea what were going to introduce in FS3 beyond very large ships and a bigger problem.

[Prophet]

It doesn't mean that if Shivans are the most obvious it must have been someone else...
And yes you are right. We have no idea what had in mind. Thus we must work what we have. There has been no indication of any third party influence in the Capella incident. Nor has there ever been any indication that there exists anything more powerful than Shivans. In this universe or in the next one from the right.

If we want to speculate what *might* have done in FS3, then consider this. If they would have added another omnipotent race/force from this galaxy or some other galaxy, it would ruin the story. Everything thus far has been revolving around the Shivans, and they guard the doors to the answers. Adding something that the Shivans are afraid of would be like saying "Sorry guys, we ran out of ideas. But heres a galaxy killin' master race that we highjacked from the other scifi universe so that we might have another war." And I cant imagine doing that.

The Shivans are the key here. Destruction of Capella was their main goal, or a side effect. Either way, they did it. I belive this simply because there is no indication whatsoever that it was some third party, or even the GTVA.

I bet the "bigger problem" in FS3 you refer to must have somethnig to do with Shivans and the subspace. 

[wgemini]

I don't think the jumpnode collapse plan proves anything. First of all, it may not work. Their efforts at Knossos subspace portal was a total failure. The baston was nearly destroyed before entering into the node as well. Even if it did work. the shivans are known to be able to open new nodes and/or use uncharted/unstable nodes. Thereofre, the plan is far from fool proof.

The problem with the obvious Shivan solution is that it goes against the theory of Shivans being the great destroyer and great preserve. The GTVA is trespassing in subspace, and thus poses a threat to all lifeforms. The shivans, being the immune system of the galaxy, are very interested in the destruction of the GTVA. FS1 showed the Shivans are very determined in destroying both the Terrans and the Vasudans. The destroying of the Capella Sun simply doesn't add up and is way too convenient for the GTVA.

[aldo_14]

There's a but. If Shivans didn't do it, who did? Not Terrans nor Vasudans. No locigal reason because of the jumpnode collapse plan. If the star would be that old, GTVA would know and command would have mentioned it (we know the approx. age of our sun today, and natural supernovas do not occur that fast). Ancients didn't do it, because offically they are dead.
And thought I admit that the theory sounds interesting, I seriously doubt it was someone *else*. I don't belive that would bring another race in to the play.

The most obvious one to blame are the Shivans. They have the means (technology) and the will (they are pesky aliens!) to do it.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."