[ZylonBane]

Interesting that they seem to have changed the setting; IIRC it was originally set in a WW2 Nazi lab that had been reopened in more modern times before 'going wrong'

And thank god for that. The whole "Nazi lab LOL" thing is so tired it made my bones ache just thinking about it. This new scenario -- stranded on the ocean floor in the ruins of a once-utopian city -- sounds way, WAY more interesting. The art-deco motif should be a great change from the industrial-grunge look that Unreal/Quake/Doom have been shoving down our throats for years.

As for it appearing on the X360, I'm not too concerned. The Invisible War comparison, while understandable, really isn't apt. Several significant factors are different:

1. By the time DX:IW came out, home PCs had far exceeded the specs of the original X-Box. The X360, on the other hand, is right at the start of its life cycle and thus quite powerful compared to current home PCs.
2. Ion Storm's development goal with DX:IW was to deliver the exact same game to console and PC (ref. Warren Spector's "gamers are gamers" blather). Irrational, on the other hand, has already stated that the PC version will be released after the X360 version, no doubt using that time to polish a PC-centric interface, and hopefully to gather feedback from the console version.
3. DX:IW simply wasn't a very good game. It was team lead Harvey Smith's first game as lead developer, there were many ill-considered design decisions, the team was not the same as the original DX team, and apparently internal morale was low. BioShock, on the other hand, is being developed by the same guys who did System Shock 2 (and several other popular games since then).
4. DX:IW ran on a hacked-up Unreal engine with Ion Storm's technologically immature "Flesh" rendering engine bolted on top. BioShock will be running on a second-generation version of Irrational's Tribes: Vengeance engine.

Additionally, Irrational has all of Ion Storm's horrible mistakes to learn from.

[Rictor]

I much prefer the Art Deco/60s setting to any spooky abandoned Nazi labs. It's just too overdone. Besides, BioShock seems to be shooting more for disturbing and thought-provoking than spooky, or at least that's what I would like to believe. It's hard to believe, but the game setting appears to be truly original, which after 20+ years of the games industry is quite a feat.

[ZylonBane]

Oh, I'm thinking it will be VERY spooky. Think about the setting-- you're trapped in a decaying city on the ocean floor. Creaks and moans of millions of tons of pressure barely held in check. Water leaking in everywhere. Broken, malfunctioning facilities. Horribly mutated once-human scavengers roaming about.

And remember, Irrational has Thief sound genius Eric Brosius on board. Nobody does spooky like him.

[Martinus]

I'm torn like I've never been torn before.

I don't want to get excited about this since it may turn out to be an uberflop but then again it looks so damn compelling.

[ZmaN]

All I can say is please god, please, don't let what happened to DX:IW happen to this one.

What actually happened to that game?  I heard it was bad but why?

[Turnsky]

I thought the original plot was based in an abandoned Nazi lab? Guess they tanked that one...

guess they moved away from the big book of scifi cliche's.

as for Invisible war, it was too "consolised" they removed any decent RPG element from the game in the skillpoints department, and screwed up augmentation system.

[ZylonBane]

All I can say is please god, please, don't let what happened to DX:IW happen to this one.

What actually happened to that game? I heard it was bad but why?

Long story short-- everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

[phatosealpha]

All I can say is please god, please, don't let what happened to DX:IW happen to this one.

What actually happened to that game?  I heard it was bad but why?

Major issues.  ZylonBane is not understating.   Because of the messed up way mods worked, you were capable of becoming a melee dude of absolute doom before leaving the intro area.  Guns were completely unneccessary until the last area or so - where they WOULD'VE been very handy since some enemies exploded when you killed them.  But all guns used the same ammo, and the carry limit was way, way too low so you couldn't shoot your way through them either.  Areas were small and cramped. The XP system from the original was gone.  That meant the character based accuracy was gone, as was a lot of the character building decision making.   performance wasn't so hot.  There were several different factions asking you for favors, and yelling at you if you didn't do what they asked - and promptly forgot about it in the next area, even if you blew up a major warehouse or assasinated important people.  The interactive style computers and passcode doors were replaced by flat out keys, which lacked any of the charm or immersion.  And the plot lacked a certain something from the first game I just can't put my finger on.

When I finished DX1 the first time, I wanted to play it again immediately.  Upon finished IW, I wanted to forget I had played it at all.

I imagine there were other things they could've done to make the game un-fun, but the only one that's popping to mind is sharpening the CD so you'd cut  your fingers off when you picked it up. 

[Turnsky]

All I can say is please god, please, don't let what happened to DX:IW happen to this one.

What actually happened to that game?  I heard it was bad but why?

Major issues.  ZylonBane is not understating.   Because of the messed up way mods worked, you were capable of becoming a melee dude of absolute doom before leaving the intro area.  Guns were completely unneccessary until the last area or so - where they WOULD'VE been very handy since some enemies exploded when you killed them.  But all guns used the same ammo, and the carry limit was way, way too low so you couldn't shoot your way through them either.  Areas were small and cramped. The XP system from the original was gone.  That meant the character based accuracy was gone, as was a lot of the character building decision making.   performance wasn't so hot.  There were several different factions asking you for favors, and yelling at you if you didn't do what they asked - and promptly forgot about it in the next area, even if you blew up a major warehouse or assasinated important people.  The interactive style computers and passcode doors were replaced by flat out keys, which lacked any of the charm or immersion.  And the plot lacked a certain something from the first game I just can't put my finger on.

When I finished DX1 the first time, I wanted to play it again immediately.  Upon finished IW, I wanted to forget I had played it at all.

I imagine there were other things they could've done to make the game un-fun, but the only one that's popping to mind is sharpening the CD so you'd cut  your fingers off when you picked it up. 

DX2 held a lot of promise, and failed on every count, it even runs worse than doom 3 on an older system, if they kept the same RPG system from DX1, and had a better storyline and was a good 10 hours or so longer, it woulda been golden, oh, and not forgetting a more reliable engine, let's hope if there is a DX3, that it uses source, 'cuz let's face it, the facial animation system, etc, would be perfect for an FPS/RPG hybrid. (albeit bloodlines was a hit and miss affair)

[ZylonBane]

I imagine there were other things they could've done to make the game un-fun, but the only one that's popping to mind is sharpening the CD so you'd cut your fingers off when you picked it up.

Well you did miss a few--

The interface is completely console-centric. Instead of drag-drop and clicking on buttons to make things happen, everything is controlled by a small selection of keypresses (which were quite obviously mapped directly from the X-Box controller).

There's the giant text (suitable for reading on a TV from across a living room), and that godawful circular HUD that makes you feel like you're viewing the game through a cardboard tube.

Alex D (the male version) looks like he walked out of a goddamn boy band. He's a whiny snotty-nosed little punk. Note how even the box art has him pointing a gun right at you, gangsta' style.

That general attention to detail in this game's production was so awful, there were neon signs with blatant spelling errors.

All the NPC models have horrific bugged-out eyes. But hey, at least they have modeled eyes. The Alex D model eyes are just PAINTED ON.

Unlike the first game, where you're given several missions to get to know the game's major characters before things start going to hell, DX:IW just throws you in at the deep end. Imagine if DX started with the "Assassinate Lebedev" mission.

The physics engine is horribly implemented. Bumping into things will often send them flying across the room, and you can literally throw a body twenty feet straight up into the air, then hold it there with gunfire.

[CP5670]

That last "problem" is actually quite nice because it allow you to do some really fun stuff with the physics. The fire barrels go flying across the map when you bump into them, making them an interesting weapon against enemies, and the bodies have the most insane stretching/vibrating effect I've ever seen in any game. I need to post some screenshots I have of this.

But yeah, DXIW got so many things wrong that it's hard to believe that this was the sequel to one of the greatest games ever made. It's like what FS3 would be if Derek Smart made it. And yet I think DXIW still manages to be better than many other games today.

[Turnsky]

better than magazine shots

[Roanoke]

Interesting that they seem to have changed the setting; IIRC it was originally set in a WW2 Nazi lab that had been reopened in more modern times before 'going wrong'

And thank god for that. The whole "Nazi lab LOL" thing is so tired it made my bones ache just thinking about it. This new scenario -- stranded on the ocean floor in the ruins of a once-utopian city -- sounds way, WAY more interesting. The art-deco motif should be a great change from the industrial-grunge look that Unreal/Quake/Doom have been shoving down our throats for years.

Hell yeah to all of that. The only poss. problem is Take2 have posted shakey figures lately (IIRC they delayed the release, which is itself not a great sign). Apparantly the recent take over of several studios, including Irrational, has starting to sting >.>

[Nix]

You know, Take2 is STILL catching hell over Hot Coffee.   Some state or something, I cannot remember the exact person, but the charge involved "Take2 is selling pornography to children." Well if retailers did thier job in the first place we wouldnt have this problem.  To be truthful, Rockstar should be taking some heat too but all I hear about is Take2 did this, did that....   I just hope that they'll stay afloat and not let someone like EA buy (and assimilate a-la Looking Glass) Irrational.  At least get bioshock out first.

[General Freak]

This one... http://www.bioshock.co.uk/images/tiscali_050214_08.jpg
that's a bit like X-COM: Terror From the Deep in 3D.  (Remember the Calcinite?)

In fact, the whole game seems to be set in a marine world. 'Something about creatures in the ocean discovered by scientists' <-- magazine quote.

And look at this: http://www.bioshock.co.uk/images/tiscali_050214_03.jpg That's almost like a distortion of advertisements from Larkin's essential beauty...erm...yeah, I think. 

[ZylonBane]

In fact, the whole game seems to be set in a marine world.

Gee, did the whole "it takes place in an underwater city" thing tip you off?