[Mars]

*Dons collapsed-core molybdenum armor to protect self from HLP firepower*

Good a time to start posting as any... so a fighter with one four gun bank has twice the primary firepower of a fighter with two, two gun banks?

[castor]

Close to twice, at least

Carl, why would a slight difference in damage/s take a way a lot of the strategy? (it could also add something).
I was testing this a long time ago, and back then that was my observation. Seems I need to try it again now..

[Carl]

It would take away a lot of the strategy because you have to figure out how to balance your weapons correctly. having 2 different types of weapons linked together blends their effects together, instead of adding them.

[bfobar]

It would take away a lot of the strategy because you have to figure out how to balance your weapons correctly. having 2 different types of weapons linked together blends their effects together, instead of adding them.

On the other hand, filling up all the banks of an eyrines with prometheus S cannons makes for nice long range 1-2 shot kills. I think that linking should do slightly more than 1/2 damage because otherwise it's mostly pointless compared to just switching to the best gun for the task-at-hand.

[castor]

Tried this setting now: A Fenris with hull at 40% + A1 as HercII, two banks of Kaysers.
=> with linked guns it took 14 secs to bring the Fenris down, 19 secs with one bank.

This suggest a single/linked fp ratio of 74% (about).

[Mars]

What does it say in the actual source code? Anyone know for sure? 
I've found that play-testing for statistics in general yeilds inaccurate results.

[Frankie]

This suggest a single/linked fp ratio of 74% (about).

Sounds a whole lot like 3/4ths, aka fire wait time is increased by 50%, which is a nice round number that a game designer might use. Thanks much for the empirical data.

Now that that appears to be settled, I have a few short followup questions, based on the following info:

	Armor/sec	Shield/sec	Subsys/sec	Energy/sec	Range
Kayser	112	100.8	39.2	4.8	975
Prometheus S	77.14	85.71	30	2.86	1500
Maxim	173.3	26.67	133.3	6.67	3600
Mekhu	72	64	24	1.33	970
Subach	67.5	52.5	22.5	1	900
Prometheus R	44	32	14	1.33	900
Akheton	0	42.86	85.71	4.57	750
Morning Star	23.33	60.67	9.33	5.33	2000
Circe	0	112.5	0	2.5	1350
Lamprey	4.67	46.67	0	4	900

1: Given that Subach beats Prom-R in all damage categories, uses less energy, and has the same range, why the #*!! did anyone ever think it made sense to treat Prom-R as an upgrade? The main campaign (and BR's Homesick, FWIW) starts you with Subach, then opens up Prom-R in later missions like some sort of bonus gift.

2: The range on Maxim is WAY too high, right? Any small ship in the game with a single Maxim can take out any capital ship.

[castor]

1: Given that Subach beats Prom-R in all damage categories, uses less energy, and has the same range, why the #*!! did anyone ever think it made sense to treat Prom-R as an upgrade? The main campaign (and BR's Homesick, FWIW) starts you with Subach, then opens up Prom-R in later missions like some sort of bonus gift.

Prom-R is the ultimate useless piece of crap, everyone agrees.

2: The range on Maxim is WAY too high, right? Any small ship in the game with a single Maxim can take out any capital ship.

High range, yep. And high energy usage, and its hard to hit small targets with it (from distance). And something tells my you didn't really try and kill them big capships

[Mars]

There is some debate over whether or not the Maxim (and Trebuchet) are overly effective as they both can decimate anything smaller then a destroyer well beyond anti-fighter range. But... yeah, the Prom R is generally regarded as a mistake, it's way under-balanced.

[Frankie]

High range, yep. And high energy usage, and its hard to hit small targets with it (from distance). And something tells my you didn't really try and kill them big capships

Hmm, what do you call "big"? Maybe it's because I was on Easy mode (hey it's my first time playing any Descent game ever) but in the main campaign I killed at least a Ravana, and in Derelict I killed one or more Ravanas, Molochs, and the Auriga (Orion+), just using Maxims in the lower primary bank plus whatever missiles when appropriate.

Key was to disable engines, fly away, then whomp it at leisure after completing mission objectives. Also killed a Lucifer (Derelict) and a Sathanas (forget where), although it seemed like they weren't fighting back as hard as they could have.

[StratComm]

You quite literally can't take out anything larger than a cruiser with the Maxim alone.  The game prevents it.  You can come close, but primaries can't deliver the finishing blow.

[Frankie]

primaries can't deliver the finishing blow.

Like I said though, any fighter in the game with a single Maxim (plus a few missiles) can take out any capital ship. It's so unfair, I feel sad for the simulated crew of those superdestroyers I keep slaughtering. 

[Goober5000]

You quite literally can't take out anything larger than a cruiser with the Maxim alone. The game prevents it. You can come close, but primaries can't deliver the finishing blow.

I've taken out Molochs with them, so you can do it.  I haven't tried with destroyers or juggernauts though.

[karajorma]

Like I said though, any fighter in the game with a single Maxim (plus a few missiles) can take out any capital ship. It's so unfair, I feel sad for the simulated crew of those superdestroyers I keep slaughtering. 

Only if the capital ship is stupid enough to sit there and take it. And doesn't launch fighters of its own.

And it's not a few missiles. It's a very large number of trebuchets. 

I've taken out Molochs with them, so you can do it.  I haven't tried with destroyers or juggernauts though.

And you didn't mantis/fix this bug why?

Seriously though obviously didn't intend for corvettes and above to be fighter-killable in the FS2 universe and actually went to some lengths to make certain that abusing the treb was the only way to do it.

[Frankie]

And it's not a few missiles. It's a very large number of trebuchets.

Okay, sorry I derailed the conversation by saying "destroy". Instead I'll state that in my experience so far, whenever I have any Maxim-armed small ship up against any capital ship head-to-head, the fighter can disable every subsystem, destroy every turret, and bring the capship down to 1% hull. Maxim's range is just plain unfair.

[karajorma]

Ah. That's true. But you're meant to deploy fighters to stop that sort of thing.

[Jopi]

IMO, Trebuchet is very unfair, as you can disarm destroyers with it easily. You can take out all its beams from 5000 klicks, because their turrets won't destroy incoming Trebuchets. Then you'll just have to wait for friendly capital ships to beam it to death. Some fighters (like Tauret) can carry 26 of these. Makes most mission a walk in the park.
By the way, are those 'tactical' (Kinetic) weapons of any use? I've only tried them couple of times, because I prefer destroying my enemies to poking them. That's why I usually just pick Erinyes with pair of Kaysers.

[Mars]

I personally don't like the Morning Star, but I liked the flail in Descent: Freespace because it actually did some damage to sheilds. The point of such weapons is to freeze enemies in place so that your missiles have a chance to lock-on, the difficulty I have with them in general  on higher difficulties is the ship I'm "freezing" will turn around and fire what seems like all of their ordinance at me.

If you like the Erinyes with duel Kaysers then do yourself a favor and turn up the difficulty: usually people fly the Erinyes with a Subach/Kayser combination, or duel Prometheus S. Kaysers drain your energy banks faster then anything save the Maxim and will drain them in seconds on any difficulty but Very Easy. Test it out for yourself, when you get to Clash of Titan's II give yourself the Erinyes with duel Kaysers on medium and try to save all of the cruisers. You can't recharge your primaries much while your running from one wing to anouther. For that very reason my favorite weapon is the Subach HL-7, you virtually can't run out of energy with it on anything other then Insane (which I'm trying (and failing) to play the main campagin on currently, I had problems with an empty primary bank on The Roman's Blunder.)

[Goober5000]

If you like the Erinyes with duel Kaysers then do yourself a favor and turn up the difficulty: usually people fly the Erinyes with a Subach/Kayser combination, or duel Prometheus S. Kaysers drain your energy banks faster then anything save the Maxim and will drain them in seconds on any difficulty but Very Easy. Test it out for yourself, when you get to Clash of Titan's II give yourself the Erinyes with duel Kaysers on medium and try to save all of the cruisers. You can't recharge your primaries much while your running from one wing to anouther. For that very reason my favorite weapon is the Subach HL-7, you virtually can't run out of energy with it on anything other then Insane (which I'm trying (and failing) to play the main campagin on currently, I had problems with an empty primary bank on The Roman's Blunder.)

Tip: While you're using your afterburners, transfer all your energy to weapons.  Your primaries will recharge but your speed won't be affected.  When your afterburner runs out, rebalance your energy again.

[Jopi]

I personally don't like the Morning Star, but I liked the flail in Descent: Freespace because it actually did some damage to sheilds. The point of such weapons is to freeze enemies in place so that your missiles have a chance to lock-on, the difficulty I have with them in general  on higher difficulties is the ship I'm "freezing" will turn around and fire what seems like all of their ordinance at me.

If you like the Erinyes with duel Kaysers then do yourself a favor and turn up the difficulty: usually people fly the Erinyes with a Subach/Kayser combination, or duel Prometheus S. Kaysers drain your energy banks faster then anything save the Maxim and will drain them in seconds on any difficulty but Very Easy. Test it out for yourself, when you get to Clash of Titan's II give yourself the Erinyes with duel Kaysers on medium and try to save all of the cruisers. You can't recharge your primaries much while your running from one wing to anouther. For that very reason my favorite weapon is the Subach HL-7, you virtually can't run out of energy with it on anything other then Insane (which I'm trying (and failing) to play the main campagin on currently, I had problems with an empty primary bank on The Roman's Blunder.)

Funny you mention it, I just played that mission. I play on Medium, never on Very Easy Granted, I had to pick the Ares for that, to get those 24 Trebuchets. Can't trust any job to the wingman. IIRC, I managed to save all the cruisers, or then one died, I'm not sure. Usually when I'm blasting bombers I turn primary energy a notch or two up. When I'm done, I leave one notch to guns, rest to engines. Then at full burn to next wing.
The Erinyes with dual Kaysers works better against Shivan fighters. Lure them into a head-to-head, and blast away. That's a bit risky if there are a lot of fighters, especially on harder difficulties. Fighters like Manticore and Astaroth take only one or two shots to bring down. Which is nice, given that dogfighting them can take time.