[mnftg64]

So I guess it would be safe to say that storywise, if a Lucifer were to battle GTVA forces, they could beat it with beams, but still not some of the older weaponry.

[Goober5000]

I ran some tests the other day and posted the following in the Inferno forum:

Wasn't the Colossus created for combating Lucifer-class vessels in the first place? And now we learn it probably couldn't take one down.... Another spectacular GTVA flop.

No we didn't learn that, just because Derelict says so doesn't make it official. Until a Colossus class goes up against a Lucifer we will never know officially.

You can easily put together a mission to compare them.  It's quite obvious Derelict never did this because I just ran a bunch of experiments using the Colossus from High Noon and the standard Lucifer (though with SSL beams instead of SSLs) and the Colossus won every time, usually by a significant margin (50% hull or more).  Short summary of the results:
--If you point the Lucifer at the Colossus and the Colossus perpendicular to the Lucifer, there's no contest - the Colossus wipes the floor with the Lucifer.
--If you point the Lucifer and the Colossus directly at each other head-on, it's much closer, but the Colossus still wins by a safe margin.
--The only time the Lucifer came close to winning was when I started them at their High Noon distances away from each other and maxed out the range of the SSLBeams to 30 km.  It took a long time for the Colossus to get into range of the Lucifer, and in that time it lost a significant amount of hull, but once it got into range it was able to destroy the Lucifer before getting destroyed itself.

This assumes, of course, that beams can penetrate the Lucifer's FS1 shield.

[an0n]

The whole point of the Lucifer was extermination.

Nothing else the Shivans sent in was a true, out-'n'-out warship. For FS2 they had an entirely different goal - so the only combat vessels they sent in were escorts.

I still think that the FS1 Lucifer would kick everything's ass.

[bfobar]

The whole point of the Lucifer was extermination.

Nothing else the Shivans sent in was a true, out-'n'-out warship. For FS2 they had an entirely different goal - so the only combat vessels they sent in were escorts.

I still think that the FS1 Lucifer would kick everything's ass.

I thought of the Lucifer as a cheap alternative to the sathanas for exterminating peons without shields or beams, assuming that beams can decently pierce big ship shields of course. If the shivans were worried that the GTVA might send in a shielded cap ship of their own, their massive deployment of beam heavy ships like the ravana and rakshasa in fs2 makes more sense. maybe 5 reactors for cap shields are really expensive logistically? Could be why there were so many shivan supply depots in fs1.

[Cobra]

I thought of the Lucifer as a cheap alternative to the sathanas for exterminating peons without shields or beams, assuming that beams can decently pierce big ship shields of course.

you and everyone else in HLP.

[ZmaN]

what is the fredding command for making the lucifer invincable?  I am pretty sure u check the invincable  box in the ships properties?  right?  I mean does the lucifer come with shields by itself, like is it built into the ships "features"??  So if you put the colossus against the lucifer, you couldnt make the lucifer invinsable or else it wouldnt work at all, right?

[Kosh]

I still think that the FS1 Lucifer would kick everything's ass.

The Collossus and Sathanas could probably waste it.

[Prophet]

what is the fredding command for making the lucifer invincable?  I am pretty sure u check the invincable  box in the ships properties?  right?  I mean does the lucifer come with shields by itself, like is it built into the ships "features"??  So if you put the colossus against the lucifer, you couldnt make the lucifer invinsable or else it wouldnt work at all, right?

Retail Lucifer is just like the Colossus. Exept that it looks different and has more hitpoints. Unless you tick the "invincible" box in FRED. Then it is just like the colossus, exept that it looks different and is invincible. Plain as that.
There however is a version if the Lucifer somewhere, that is shielded (is it in the mediavp? can't remember). With that you migh check that it has shields enabled, should be on by default. The shields function like fighter shields, that is you can nibble them away with a subach. Exept if you tick the Lucufer as "invincible". Then it is just that, invincible.

[Mars]

Retail Lucifer is just like the Colossus....

Uh... no, the Lucifer (in Freespace 2, by default) only has 2 SRed beams (the same type found on the Cain) although that can be changed. The Orion can often destroy a Lucifer, an Orion can never destroy a Colossus... with default weapons at any rate... because of the "supercap" flag. The Collossus is also over twice the length of the Lucifer and as the cutscene says (accurately) "Twelve Lucifer class destroyers can fit within its massive hull."

Lucifer ≠ Colossus.

                                                                   Oh... Never mind

[Prophet]

                                                                   Oh... Never mind

Yes. Quite. Well done. 

[Mars]

Just had my wisdom teeth out, vykadine (sp?) does bizzare things to ones mind. I considered completely wiping out what I said, but left it for the humor content.

[Cobra]

Retail Lucifer is just like the Colossus....

Uh... no, the Lucifer (in Freespace 2, by default) only has 2 SRed beams (the same type found on the Cain) although that can be changed. The Orion can often destroy a Lucifer, an Orion can never destroy a Colossus... with default weapons at any rate... because of the "supercap" flag. The Collossus is also over twice the length of the Lucifer and as the cutscene says (accurately) "Twelve Lucifer class destroyers can fit within its massive hull."

Lucifer ≠ Colossus.

 Oh... Never mind

Too bad that it doesn't exactly LOOK like 12 lucifers can fit within the colossus in-game.

the reason the colossus would bbq the lucy... well, i'll let the 3 or 4 BFGreens on the collie's broadside speak for themselves.

[Mars]

No one ever  said the 12 Lucifers were whole, chopsaw anyone?

[bfobar]

Of course from the FS2 demo, we know that the lucy has those side mounted beam cannons that can core an orion like an apple, but that never gets put on the in-game ship... unless you hack the htl lucifer and enable them. That can get at least 1 more LRed into the fight, and the colossus gets blown up pretty quickly if you use the 1 shot orion kill gun that was posted in the hi poly lucifer thread with its own graphics. Eh. These what-ifs are always a moot point.

Anyone else disappointed that a lucifer didn't show up in the main fs2 campaign? Slaying Lucifer would have been a much cooler mission than Slaying Ravana I think.

[SuperCoolAl]

Didn't the FS2 Lucifer get it's own special LuciferBeam?

[Cobra]

nah, it got LReds.

[Mars]

No the Freespace 2 Lucifer was equiped with SReds, the same cannon mounted on the SC Cain, making the Lucifer a sitting duck.

[Nuclear1]

Didn't the FS2 Lucifer get it's own special LuciferBeam?

That came with the FSPort, IIRC.

[Dark Hunter]

I thought of the Lucifer as a cheap alternative to the sathanas for exterminating peons without shields or beams, assuming that beams can decently pierce big ship shields of course. If the shivans were worried that the GTVA might send in a shielded cap ship of their own, their massive deployment of beam heavy ships like the ravana and rakshasa in fs2 makes more sense. maybe 5 reactors for cap shields are really expensive logistically? Could be why there were so many shivan supply depots in fs1.

That actually ties in to Noise's Into the Depths of Hell campaign. At one point (Chapter 3?) the Exile Fleet blows up a sheild manufacturing depot...or something like that anyway.

[ShivanSpS]

If the Beam Cannons bypass shields, what is the idea of keep the shields? A strong attack is the best defense. Anyway, The Lucifer-class should be something special to the Shivan, lets just say, a fleet of +90 Sathanas cant be builded in 30 years... The Lucifer-class could be a Speacial operations ship or a scout ship... Something special, Anyway, is the same tha let say, Why the Sathanas dont have shields? or why any other ship have shields?, that is because those big shield system needs extreme power to work and keep them up. That limits the offence power, so lets wipe them out and add more offence power. The Sathanas is the best esample.

Think this... in the Ancients records, they say "When the destroyers came for us, we attacked. Never had we been defeated. They were like the others: strange, hideous, resisting, fighting. Only these were not like the others: They did not die."

And more exsactly, the part "They were like the others: strange, hideous, resisting, fighting" others what?, the Shivan are the only race that the Ancients meet, so when they say: "When the destroyers came for us, we attacked." they refers to that class of destroyer... Could be the Lucifer-class or... Could be a Sathanas class which shields, the Shivans at that moment, the shivans could using shields on his super destroyers at the cost of firepower. of cource, the beams not even exist.

Well just two thing: The Lucifer Class is old ship or a "special Class", the Beams cannons rendered the Shield tecnology on big ships obsolete.