Author Topic: More proof of evolution  (Read 223326 times)

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Offline Mefustae

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Re: More proof of evolution
The fact that you can't is just because of the almost infinite variables involved... which, until evolutionists can prove that alternate forms of life can exist, (not being somewhat like life as we know it) then those odds work against evolution, because the chances of everything going wrong are infinitely (almost) more than those of it going right an (almost) infinite number of times.

...

The chances of the right-hand column, given a 1/2 chance for each of the six steps, would be 1/64.  But, if a creationist tries to say that the chances of simple chemicals forming into bacteria are 1/64, you guys would say he's not taking into account the other steps... but he is!  What gives??
What are the chances of God?

 
Re: More proof of evolution
What in the-!?!  :wtf:

Why does no-one understand that I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SNOWFLAKES!!!
Because you are so astonishingly bad at making your point perhaps.

Quote from: m
The "trap" I was referring to is that you people laugh at us creationists for believing that it is mathematically practically impossible for life-forms to evolve at all, much less multiple times, but then you go on to say that

Quote from: Edward Bradshaw
The reason we dont find them is that the chances of two snowflakes having its complex water molocules in the exact same place as the other is practically zero.

So, which is more complex: a snowflake or a living organism?

You know when I wrote that I wondered if you would totally misunderstand.

Please read this very carefully. Under normal conditions the chances of two snowflakes having the same exact molecular structure as another is almost zero, but the chances of A snowflake forming is VERY LIKELY. Can you honestly not see the difference?

You can make your own homemade ice crystals.
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/project/project.htm

You can make your own sugar crystals:
http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/canopy/2525/crystals/

You can watch these crystals grow right in front of you. Now please try and understand the following because it applies both to snowflakes and to your terrible argument....

If you perform these experiments....

.... the chances of A crystal forming is VERY LIKELY.
.... BUT the chances of repeating the experiment and getting a crystal that is exactly the same is almost ZERO.


Cant you see the difference?

Quote
In case you don't want to read that, it essentially means that while the chances of, say, amino acids forming from chemicals is acceptably high,
Yet the organic amino acids have been shown to form (like ice crystals) consistently in experiments for many years now. What we know is that these organic amino acids will form given the right circumstances.

 
Quote
that probability combined with the probability of an amino acid then becoming a protein, etc, etc, means that the living organism will definitely never evolve. 

Once again, abiogeneiss has practically nothing to do with evolution theory in the same way as atomic theory has nothing to do with the Big Bang. You guys say that Evolution is flawed because you need life to begin with, but thats the same thing with atomic theory not caring where atoms come from or how Pasteurs Germ theory doesnt address where microbes come from.

Quote
This is because you must multiply all the probabilities of all the steps. (e.g. .25% x .25% = .125% chance)

You dont know anything about abiogenesis to state its a mathematical impossibilty. You cant even understand the ridiculousness of this snowflake nonsence you brought up.

Quote
And BY THE WAY:

Abiogenesis is just spontaneous generation repackaged!!!

No it isnt. While that article has inappropriately called abiogenesis spontaneous generation, it still makes the dictinction between Pasteus work and modern abiogenesis which they recognise as very different. Spontaneus Generation and abiogenesis are totally different things, as long as you continue to pretend otherwise it only shows how vacuous your position is.




« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 03:09:20 pm by Edward Bradshaw »

 

Offline Kazan

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Re: More proof of evolution
m listen very carefully

you don't know what the **** you're talking about when it comes to real world probabilties, we do.


in all probability (pun intented) you almost certainly don't know the difference between sequential and parellel trials of probabilties, or the first damn thing about the LAW OF EXTREMELY LARGE NUMBERS

Say the probability of random event occuring is 1/x - and there are y "chances" for this event to occur every 1 second - the mean time to occurance is x/y seconds. 

wrap your brain around that for a bit
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: More proof of evolution
I'm surrounded by professors of debate.
This thread must push 1000,
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: More proof of evolution
oh, don't worry it'll start back up a month from now with m or jr2 talking about the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: More proof of evolution
oh, don't worry it'll start back up a month from now with m or jr2 talking about the 2nd law of thermodynamics.


Are you absolutly sure?


Remember, we must not let this thread die; protect it at all costs!!!!!!!!
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: More proof of evolution
I hereby dub you Gibson.

Or was it Sarno?
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Offline Turambar

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Re: More proof of evolution
i can always drag in more wannabe intellectual noobs.  i live in the South.  we got tons of em here.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: More proof of evolution
i can always drag in more wannabe intellectual noobs.  i live in the South.  we got tons of em here.


You're welcome to do so.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Colonol Dekker

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I stand by my platypus point, What does it fit in as, Its a mammal, but it has a Beak..............FREAK !
Either Evolution was fuxxed with by a mad aboriganl scientist, or god threw the leftover bits into a washing machine whilest drunk.
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Offline aldo_14

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I stand by my platypus point, What does it fit in as, Its a mammal, but it has a Beak..............FREAK !
Either Evolution was fuxxed with by a mad aboriganl scientist, or god threw the leftover bits into a washing machine whilest drunk.
It doesn't have a beak.

A beak is solid bone (extension of the jaw covered in skin/blood vessels on the exterior), the platypus snout is a soft flexible organ which does not 'split' like a beak.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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It will if i get my hands on one of the sods.........

 ;7


So about evolution, on a philosophical level, If by creatign life and manipulating makes you a god, And science at this point in our developement can (through IVF etc) create life. Does that make us gods, or god a scientist???
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Offline aldo_14

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It will if i get my hands on one of the sods.........

 ;7


So about evolution, on a philosophical level, If by creatign life and manipulating makes you a god, And science at this point in our developement can (through IVF etc) create life. Does that make us gods, or god a scientist???

We're not creating life, we're only facilitating the 'creation' process; i.e. existing mechanics of reproduction (all we're doing is taking it outside the body temporarily). 

Actually creating life would involve repeating the process of abiogenesis.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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I did that twice this morning.........before breakfast  :nervous:

Genetic manipulation is getting closer and closer, I forget the dna % difference between us and primates, but as soon as we "improve" humanity by a small percentage, Are we not effectively creating new life?
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Offline aldo_14

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I did that twice this morning.........before breakfast  :nervous:

Genetic manipulation is getting closer and closer, I forget the dna % difference between us and primates, but as soon as we "improve" humanity by a small percentage, Are we not effectively creating new life?

Not any more than by cross-breeding dogs (for example).

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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8 legged napalm breathing dogs?   give it a few years............. :nod:
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I stand by my platypus point, What does it fit in as, Its a mammal, but it has a Beak..............FREAK !
Either Evolution was fuxxed with by a mad aboriganl scientist, or god threw the leftover bits into a washing machine whilest drunk.

Like Aldo said, it doesnt have a beak (or at least its nothing like a ducks).  It also doesnt lay eggs like a bird, the eggs are very different. From what I know there were about 5 different lineages of mammals evolving from therapsid reptiles, the Platypus is the egg laying kind whos lineage has died out.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 07:18:41 am by Edward Bradshaw »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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It hasnt though,, Platypi are still alive :rolleyes: i see your point though.......
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It hasnt though,, Platypi are still alive :rolleyes: i see your point though.......
hehe. What I meant was theres lots of different species of marsupials for example but the Platypus is the only egg laying mammal of its lineage left today.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 11:07:54 am by Edward Bradshaw »

 

Offline karajorma

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It will if i get my hands on one of the sods.........

Bear in mind that the Platypus is venomous. Probably a defence mechanism cause it was teased by all the other mammals :D
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