[an0n]

Who gives a ****?

It's just being done for marketting purposes, so they can tell people that by combatting piracy and making sure the poor, defenceless MS coding teams get paid, they're driving down the cost to You! Their valued customer!

And the chances are, if you're using something that MS deems harmful, you'll be the kind of person who patches all that snopping bull**** into a tiny little box in a dark, cold, rat-infested corner of your hard-drive surrounded by electrified barbed wire, as soon as you finish the install anyways.

So, all it's really doing is helping hackers to backdoor noobs and tards. Which I'm all for.

[aldo_14]

And I have the potential to gain control of your computer and snoop around your HDD right now just by you being connected to the internet, but that doesnt mean I am doing it................

Tosh.

Me being connected to the internet does not entail me expressly allowing you or anyone else low level access to my hard disk; all transactions are made with my consent and limited to a set of application functions of which I have full control (in terms of their operation and access).   Any other transactions beyond that explicit (through manual action) consent are illegal.  What I am not doing is giving you root level 0 access because I need to do so in order to update faults in my OS software.

Crucially, even though internet connected apps I have may access the disk for various purposes, I do not have to allow them to do so in order to update fixes.

[Cyker]

Well this is the way things are going - I'm sure most MS products will use something like this as time goes on, and then we'll hit the stage where we need to be connected on-line so that MS apps can periodically poll the Master server to verify themselves.
If it can't it'll shut itself down.
It'll also shut down if you don't pay your monthly Windows/Office/Bob subscription.

Valve (May some arbitrary being eat their souls) have already proven that people will happily sell their mothers and run intrusive crap like that if they get to play with the shinies.

I'm glad I bought Darwinia before it REQUIRED Steam...

I don't care anymore - I'll just use Win98 and Win2000 until hardware support is totally gone. By then, hopefully, ReactOS and WINE will be able to fill what gaps I have.
Hell, NWN and FS2 both run on Linux and that'll do

[Nix]

That's just a fancy way of saying "Zone alarm will protect me!"a  Don't tell me that you have every application, the Generic Host Process which just about every program uses to create a socket set for "Ask every time" or something, Unless you LIKE clicking on an authorization box 3-4 times while just trying to load up a webpage!  That's just not possible, because you'd be browsing way too slow, and quite honestly is silly to do.  There's no way you can sit there, post like you do, and STILL manage each and every single connection that is established through your firewall.  Besides, if you actually DO have a firewall that monitors all outbound and inbound connections, you'd be able to see the process from the WGA trying to create the socket, even if it's through Generic Host Process.  IF you know what port is used, and what thread was utilising GHP to create the socket, you could know if WGA is trying to report back to mothership or not.  So then, you could BLOCK IT and NOT WORRY about it getting back.

Saying that M$ snoops around like the FBI is preposterous.  What good would it do M$ to monitor millions and millions of computer systems JUST to see what's on thier hard drives?  The only good it would do is to see if they're using legitimate software that they've created, and deserve to be paid for.  If you don't think M$ deserves to be paid, you have the CHOICE to move over to Linux.  Don't be a dick and keep using pirated M$ software just because you think you are enitled to a freebee just cause you dont like the company.  Besides, this is a great way to keep BUSINESSES in line with licensing agreements.  You wouldn't believe how spoiled some businesses were with Windows 98 and all, where you could get away with using one key for thousands of machines, and nobody would be the wiser, untill someone came in to audit you and actually look though the registry to find the same key on all machines.  THEN you'd be in trouble.  This way, it's easier to sort out the bad businesses from the good, and to make everyone play fair when it comes to business. 

As for personal users, AutoPatcher is your friend.  Hands-down, the best collection of every single MS-released security patch, along with other extra goodies like TweakUI.  I'm sure that people can use Autopatcher, and still not have to opt-in for WGA.  Since it looks like NOBODY read the last line of the quote, "Regardless of thier WGA Status, people can still obtain high priority updates for thier computers."  Anyone can download these packages manually and install them manually direct from Microsoft's website.  They're just monitoring the Auto-Update feature with WGA.  If you use Autopatcher instead, which is a hefty download, you actually have a decent choice over what you want installed and not installed. 

Oh, and to those who are still just running base SP2 with no security updates, you really are behind the times.  Just having SP2 will not keep the OS impervious to intrusions and other internal flaws that have been discovered.  Jpeg vulnerability, anyone?? 

[Martinus]

If you don't think M$ deserves to be paid, you have the CHOICE to move over to Linux.  Don't be a dick and keep using pirated M$ software just because you think you are enitled to a freebee just cause you dont like the company.

See therein lies the problem, you don't get a choice.

If you want to play the newest games and run certain pieces of hardware you simply can't use anything other than windows. The other OS's aren't supported either by lack of drivers and partially as a result a lack of ports to the OS.

[KappaWing]

Service Pack 2 slows down games!!! Uninstall it and all the security updates and get a good virus scanner like AVG.

[Kamikaze]

I find it ironic that you say SP2 slows down games and then go around advocating virus scanning software.

[Nix]

So you're saying hardware manufacturers are going to require the WGA to communicate when a driver is installed?  THQ, Sierra, all of those companies are going to require to be "activated" through WGA before the game will be installed?  Sounds like a farfetched scheme to me.  It's easier for the publishers of games to provide thier OWN method of activation, such as Steam, or how Alcohol-software has it's own validation routine that doesn't go anywhere BUT back to the source, alcohol-soft.  If you want to run windows, just pay for the damn thing, and be happy that you'll be able to use that software for at least four years.  I purchased one copy of XP back in 2002, and I'm still using the same exact copy.  Buy the OEM version, it's half of retail.  Paying $150 for a copy of windows that is one hundred percent legitimate and has guaranteed support for future upgrades and patches is not a big deal!  If you have multiple machines, buy a license pack, which will save quite a bit actually.  If you're currently enrolled in a high school or university that participates in the Microsoft Developer Academic Alliance (MSDNAA) see about getting your own copy of Windows XP AND x64 for dirt CHEAP. 

WGA and WPA  do NOT snoop your hard drive and report back to MS whenever it wants to, and saying it has the potential to do so, well Steam has the potential to do that too.  Hell, Windows ITSELF has the potential to report the contents of drives back to other sources.  But do you see it happening?  Any reports of Steam saying "Hey, RIAA, this guy has fourty thousand MP3's that do not have a DRM signature on them! Go Get Em!"  I thought not...

If you're still paranoid about WGA and WPA, Install your updates manually!

Service Pack 2 slows down games!!! Uninstall it and all the security updates and get a good virus scanner like AVG.

LOL at AVG.  AVG=****e.  Grab eTrust for free.  Don't believe me?  Go to thier website, and insert /microsoft into the URL.  And no, you dont have to be WGA'd to get the free year of AV protection. 
Also, LOL at SP2 slowing down games.  There's absolutely no difference in benchmark scores, in-game benchmark scores on my machine from an XP Gold install (meaning absolutely zero updates, absolutely zero service packs) and a slipstreamed SP2 install, with full updates to April of this year.  Absolutely zero difference. 

[vyper]

@ KappaWing: You sir, are what we call a moron.

[deftonesmx17]

If you don't think M$ deserves to be paid, you have the CHOICE to move over to Linux.  Don't be a dick and keep using pirated M$ software just because you think you are enitled to a freebee just cause you dont like the company.

See therein lies the problem, you don't get a choice.

If you want to play the newest games and run certain pieces of hardware you simply can't use anything other than windows. The other OS's aren't supported either by lack of drivers and partially as a result a lack of ports to the OS.

Boo hoo, I dont have a choice if I want to play a directx game made for Windows. News flash, if you wanted to play an xbox 360 game you would have to buy an xbox 360, wouldnt you? Same concept.................

I like how you are saying you don't have a choice, when it all started by choice. If you want to play the newest game, you made the chioce to play the game that requires windows. M$ didnt force you to want to play that game, you made the chioce to on your own. If you want to run that certain piece of hardware that requires windows, you made the choice to run that hardware in the first place.

Tosh.

Me being connected to the internet does not entail me expressly allowing you or anyone else low level access to my hard disk; all transactions are made with my consent and limited to a set of application functions of which I have full control (in terms of their operation and access).   Any other transactions beyond that explicit (through manual action) consent are illegal.  What I am not doing is giving you root level 0 access because I need to do so in order to update faults in my OS software.

Crucially, even though internet connected apps I have may access the disk for various purposes, I do not have to allow them to do so in order to update fixes.

Someone likes to argue

[aldo_14]

[q]Boo hoo, I dont have a choice if I want to play a directx game made for Windows. News flash, if you wanted to play an xbox 360 game you would have to buy an xbox 360, wouldnt you? Same concept.................[/q]

No, it isn't.

A Pc is a piece of generic hardware, though.  It's not a Microsoft PC, it's not hardware you buy from MS.  It's hardware you run Ms upon, and you are left with little choice due to MS monopolization of the market restricting the availability of key programs - not just games - on alternatives.  Part of this can be put down to simple anti-trust style tactics by MS rather than there being any sort of technological superiority.  If you don't want a 360 but want to play games, you can still buy a PS3 or Revolution.  There's a market, competition for that application sector.

If you don't want Windows but want to play Pc games, you're mostly screwed.  Ditto if you want to use Max, or if you want to edit documents (because MS Office doesn't support the OpenDocument standard, preventing interoperation with the likes of StarOffice which do).  Not to mention when hardware is only supported by Windows because the manufacturer only provides drivers for that OS, or in the future when Ms looks (and is trying to) to embed parts of the windows kernel in the BIOS.

Monopolisation and anti-competitive strategies lock us into using Windows, not because it's good or because we want to, but because it is dominant.

[deftonesmx17]

[q]Boo hoo, I dont have a choice if I want to play a directx game made for Windows. News flash, if you wanted to play an xbox 360 game you would have to buy an xbox 360, wouldnt you? Same concept.................[/q]

No, it isn't.

A Pc is a piece of generic hardware, though.  It's not a Microsoft PC, it's not hardware you buy from MS.  It's hardware you run Ms upon, and you are left with little choice due to MS monopolization of the market restricting the availability of key programs - not just games - on alternatives.  Part of this can be put down to simple anti-trust style tactics by MS rather than there being any sort of technological superiority.  If you don't want a 360 but want to play games, you can still buy a PS3 or Revolution.  There's a market, competition for that application sector.

If you don't want Windows but want to play Pc games, you're mostly screwed.  Ditto if you want to use Max, or if you want to edit documents (because MS Office doesn't support the OpenDocument standard, preventing interoperation with the likes of StarOffice which do).  Not to mention when hardware is only supported by Windows because the manufacturer only provides drivers for that OS, or in the future when Ms looks (and is trying to) to embed parts of the windows kernel in the BIOS.

Monopolisation and anti-competitive strategies lock us into using Windows, not because it's good or because we want to, but because it is dominant.

I will repeat myself for the people with selective reading.

If you want to play a xbox 360 game, you must buy and use an xbox 360 system.
If you want to play a windows game, you must buy and use Windows.
If you want to play a PSP game, you must buy a PSP.
If you want to play a NDS game, you must buy a NDS.

Every single one of those is the same exact concept, but I will take it one further.
Take your comment
If you don't want a 360 but want to play games, you can still buy a PS3 or Revolution.
Likewise, if you don't want to run wondows but you want to play games, you can still buy a PS3, PS2, PSP, NDS, Gamecube, xbox, xbox 360, etc. Again, you made the choice
to want that game made for windows. If windows is the only OS the game runs on then its the same concept as exclusive games on consoles. You would have to own that specific console, wouldnt you?

As for you ranting on about  PC applications and not just games. Pretend you are a developer. You want to make money off the program you plan to code. If you want to make the most money possible; are you going to code it for the OS with a large market share or are you going to code it for the OS with a small market share?

[Kamikaze]

Comparing an Xbox 360 and a PC is silly. Consoles all have wildly different hardware. PCs all have similar, compatible hardware.

It's a lot easier to develop cross-platform games for PCs. There are software libraries like SDL and OpenGL which facilitate it.

[aldo_14]

I will repeat myself for the people with selective reading.

If you want to play a xbox 360 game, you must buy and use an xbox 360 system.
If you want to play a windows game, you must buy and use Windows.
If you want to play a PSP game, you must buy a PSP.
If you want to play a NDS game, you must buy a NDS.

Every single one of those is the same exact concept, but I will take it one further.
Take your comment
If you don't want a 360 but want to play games, you can still buy a PS3 or Revolution.
Likewise, if you don't want to run wondows but you want to play games, you can still buy a PS3, PS2, PSP, NDS, Gamecube, xbox, xbox 360, etc. Again, you made the choice
to want that game made for windows. If windows is the only OS the game runs on then its the same concept as exclusive games on consoles. You would have to own that specific console, wouldnt you?

As for you ranting on about  PC applications and not just games. Pretend you are a developer. You want to make money off the program you plan to code. If you want to make the most money possible; are you going to code it for the OS with a large market share or are you going to code it for the OS with a small market share?

You missed the point.  If I want to play a game on my Pc, I have virtually no choice beyond windows. 

I never said once it was bad, or wrong, that developers make applications for Windows only because it's financially viable.  If you read my post, you'd see it was bemoaning the monopoly Microsoft have gained for their Os, a monopoly based more on marketing and anti-competitive practices than any sort of technological supremacy.

For all your schmancy bold text, you completely missed the point I tried very hard to state; it's not about individual, specific or exclusive titles but the application sector, the choice, the competition that drives innovation & investment into actual quality.  If one platform is inferior  but with massive market share, and that recieves 99% instances of an application type, I'm forced into that inferior platform to use an application of that type.

Now can you try to conceive what I'm calling for here?  It's called consumer choice.  Alternatives.  Market pressures hurting shoddy practices and shoddy products.

[Stealth]

just wanted to say i don't think there's anything wrong with the windows validation tool.

[castor]

I think this whole argument is rethorical, mostly.
Priority 1 for M$ is to make as many $ as possible. As long as the methods to achieve that are lawful and (considered) feasible, they will be used.
No big surprise, it was just a question of time.

Though, in my opinion they are shooting themeselves in the foot with this one (with heavy artillery).

[Kosh]

One of the biggest issues with this is that it does open up a gaping security hole. One decently written virus, and blammo.

[Martinus]

You missed the point.  If I want to play a game on my Pc, I have virtually no choice beyond windows. 

I never said once it was bad, or wrong, that developers make applications for Windows only because it's financially viable.  If you read my post, you'd see it was bemoaning the monopoly Microsoft have gained for their Os, a monopoly based more on marketing and anti-competitive practices than any sort of technological supremacy.

For all your schmancy bold text, you completely missed the point I tried very hard to state; it's not about individual, specific or exclusive titles but the application sector, the choice, the competition that drives innovation & investment into actual quality.  If one platform is inferior  but with massive market share, and that recieves 99% instances of an application type, I'm forced into that inferior platform to use an application of that type.

Now can you try to conceive what I'm calling for here?  It's called consumer choice.  Alternatives.  Market pressures hurting shoddy practices and shoddy products.

Given his tone he sounds like he doesn't really consider your point of value. It probably isn't worth trying to point out.

Anyhow, to reinforce your point; everyone knows about Microsoft's ongoing battles with international lawmakers the world over for anti-competitive behaviour. FSSCP proves that you can take an existing game and quite effectively port it to another OS if there are no intentional obsticales placed in your way. DirectX is an intentional obstacle created by Microsoft in order to corner the market and make it exceptionally hard for other OS'es to compete, Microsoft could have quite easily joined the open library groups of OpenGL and OpenAL but intentionally decided to create their own, propietary media rendering libraries. Games written using open libraries (Unreal Tournament for instance) are already OS-free and make more money because of this fact.

[Descenterace]

To be honest, this latest WGA 'update' by MS doesn't bother me in the least. I rarely use Windows these days, and my main rig has an XP Pro Corporate install on the secondary disk which is pretty much immune to WGA anyway. I paid for the Home Upgrade version (£90), which sucked. This doesn't entitle me to a free upgrade to something usable, but like hell do I care. MS aren't going to prosecute individual users anyway; the minute rewards wouldn't cover the admin costs or justify the loss of face.

They're smarter than the RIAA in that respect.

[knn]

Also, LOL at SP2 slowing down games.  There's absolutely no difference in benchmark scores, in-game benchmark scores on my machine from an XP Gold install (meaning absolutely zero updates, absolutely zero service packs) and a slipstreamed SP2 install, with full updates to April of this year.  Absolutely zero difference. 

Except that Swat 4 for example, after copying all that data to my hard drive, fails to "register the product" in SP2 and proceeds to delete the hundreds of megabytes it just copied. The readme tells me to uninstall SP2.
IMO SP2 is not worth downloading at all. You get the updates without it too, all you miss is the firewall (get zonealarm instead) and the security updates for ie (use firefox), although I'm sure you can download those separately as well.