Author Topic: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.  (Read 8982 times)

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Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Granted, my point still stands though.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Perhaps.

On the other hand the very length of your post is, IMO, quite telling. You can't point to single program or circumstance; you feel the need, for whatever reason, to cite multiple ones in every instance. And multiple methods of lessening the workload. 
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Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Errr, I thought that would illustrate the opposite actually? i.e. I have used a number of distro's and a number of setups and thay've pretty much always worked as long as I wasn't mucking about with 'unsafe' compile options when I did have to compile.

Maybe I've missed your point?

Sorry about the green on light background BTW, it's only temporary until the old forum scheme is back (saves having to re-edit all my posts, a bit lazy I know. ;) ).


 

Offline Scuddie

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Maeg, you're missing my points entirely.  I said even with Ubuntu.  I have been around the linux block more than once.  Ububtu is the first linux distro that I have had on my system for more than one month.  I praise it highly to anyone who ever wants to try or switch to linux.  The first word that came to mind when I installed it was 'refreshing'.  This distro actually had functionality where others failed miserably in comparison, and had much better ease of use than the make-it-yourself distros.  However, that doesnt mean that everything worked.  Aye the fundamentals were just fine, but I had many hours of trouble when I tried to install such things that weren't in the multiverse, as wineX, VLC, and many others.  It was such a put-off that I didnt start it up again for a whole 3 days...  And shortly afterward, hardware failure (PSU went boom).

Anyhow, my main gripe is that for such a smart person, you say something so stupid and ignorant.  Yeah Windows has limitations as to how far it can go.  It has security holes.  But guess what.  It works far better in the 'it just works' department than linux.  Does that make windows better than linux?  That's subjective.  But you are flat out wrong if you believe these things that you are insisting in your prior post.  Linux, at this point, is nowhere near a replacement for windows users.  It's just flat out wrong to say otherwise.

You want to control each and every aspect of your PC?  Fine.  But just because you don't like gravy, don't take away my mashed potatoes.

ADDENDUM:  Yeah.  Fix the forum styles.  And I need to type faster, and stop leaving my PC so often while responding.
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Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
I'm not trying to push linux as better than windows, I'm simply trying to point out that it's not as earth shatteringly terrifying as people reckon it is. The post you rebuked was a description of how you go about installing stuff in linux and how it compares to installing stuff in windows, I'm not trying to claim linux is easier or better, just that it's not horribly complicated.

People have a tendency to see GUI as easy and CLI as hard as well which isn't always the case and tends to scare a few people off too.

Anyhow, this has gotten way off my original point which was not to criticise Microsoft's product but how they compete. They're the ones who are trying to remove the gravy from the mashed potatoes.

 

Offline Nix

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
And as I've said before, if you disagree with Microsoft's business model, if you think they're a bad company and don't want to support thier "dirty tactics", you have the choice to switch over to Linux.  From there, you will have to accept certain sacrifices in the software you've chosen to use.  Driver support is limited, but it's because it's open sourced.  Do you remember a company named Loki games?  They ported games such as Deus Ex and others over to Linux, using OpenGL.  Why aren't they still around today?  Probably due to Linux not being a gaming OS, like Windows XP can be.  The reason why your driver support is so limited?   Probably because the whole OS and components are open sourced, meaning you're encouraged to help develop drivers and such.

If it wasn't for the big browser battle back in '98 or so, I'm sure your point would be much more reinforced, that M$ is taking away certain things here and there, forcing proprietary formats on people, well guess what?  I bet you're not using IE to view this page right now, right?  Neither am I.  Used to be a Netscape guy till Netscape 6.  Then I went Mozilla, now Firefox. The music you listen to, is probably not being processed through Windows Media player.  I've been a winamp guy since 1997.  And look at the games developed around 1998-1999.  They gave you a choice to use either a DirectX renderer, or OpenGL renderer.  (In this case, blame the game developers, because they have the ability to create the game with OGL or D3D, not Microsoft.)  Hate M$ Office? Use OpenOffice.  No problems there, fully compatible cross platform, cross format. So, tell me again where microsoft has forced you to use proprietary formats?

To me, it's just another reason to say Microsoft is evil. Nothing I ever say or do will convince you otherwise, ovbiously.
 

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
The fact that they had to pay Sun billions for trying to cripple Java should be more than enough to prove that they have previously tried to force you to use their own proprietary formats.

MS use a tactic called Embrace and Extend deliberately in order to bugger up open formats and convert them over into their own proprietary ones. Sure they can't force you to use it at gun point but they can prevent you from finding anything that isn't in their format simply by using their monopoly in the OS market to make damn sure that everyone else is using their format. This is actually illegal. Anti-trust laws should prevent a company leveraging a monopoly in this way but MS has gotten away with doing it time and time again.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Anti-trust laws should prevent a company leveraging a monopoly in this way but MS has gotten away with doing it time and time again.
Yeah, generally all laws tend to be negated after your net worth exceeds a Billion dollars or so... :rolleyes:

 
Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Even with frikkin Ubuntu I have never had a straightforward method nearly as easy as you portrayed.  Information gathering was NEVER omitted, compilation was more often than not required for the non-absolute mainstream programs.  Third party binaries didnt work out of the box 1/3 of the time.  I also had to keep switching between gcc 2.95 and gcc 3.3.

 :eek2:

*decides to stick with Gentoo for the forseeable future.*

While I have had numerous issues with different GCC versions with Debian and Slackware, Gentoo's Portage has never given me any trouble. The only time I've had to install anything myself was when I needed the most recent CVS builds of Crystal Space, Cal3D and ODE, and that was for development purposes. I would not expect any package management system to provide automatic installation of up-to-the-minute versions of Beta projects.

Also, I have thus far never needed any third party binaries for day-to-day stuff. Every utility and application I need is already in the Portage tree and can be installed as a binary or built properly from source with just a few keypresses.
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Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
And as I've said before, if you disagree with Microsoft's business model, if you think they're a bad company and don't want to support thier "dirty tactics", you have the choice to switch over to Linux.  From there, you will have to accept certain sacrifices in the software you've chosen to use.  Driver support is limited, but it's because it's open sourced.  Do you remember a company named Loki games?  They ported games such as Deus Ex and others over to Linux, using OpenGL.  Why aren't they still around today?  Probably due to Linux not being a gaming OS, like Windows XP can be.  The reason why your driver support is so limited?   Probably because the whole OS and components are open sourced, meaning you're encouraged to help develop drivers and such.
It's nothing to do with the fact that maybe there aren't that many people who know about these ports? Nothing to do with the lower number of linux users?

Quote
If it wasn't for the big browser battle back in '98 or so, I'm sure your point would be much more reinforced, that M$ is taking away certain things here and there, forcing proprietary formats on people, well guess what?  I bet you're not using IE to view this page right now, right?  Neither am I.  Used to be a Netscape guy till Netscape 6.  Then I went Mozilla, now Firefox. The music you listen to, is probably not being processed through Windows Media player.  I've been a winamp guy since 1997.  And look at the games developed around 1998-1999.  They gave you a choice to use either a DirectX renderer, or OpenGL renderer.  (In this case, blame the game developers, because they have the ability to create the game with OGL or D3D, not Microsoft.)  Hate M$ Office? Use OpenOffice.  No problems there, fully compatible cross platform, cross format. So, tell me again where microsoft has forced you to use proprietary formats?
You've not gotten bothered by WMA or WMV on your travels around the internet? How about Word and office documents? Most large educational institutions require you to have access to a machine that runs MS Office because for the most part Openoffice and it's counterparts are unable to properly deal with these formats that are constantly changed as competitors catch on. (Thankfully, as I mentioned before the US government has pulled them on that).

As for games; you can't see the cause and effect that has led to the market being the way it is today?


Quote
To me, it's just another reason to say Microsoft is evil. Nothing I ever say or do will convince you otherwise, ovbiously.
That's very theatrical you you but if you can honestly tell me that you think that Microsoft's popularity and richness came from positive, fair business practices I don't think there's any point in anyone attempting to point out the obviousness of how coloured a view that is.

 

Offline Nix

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Never once had I said that Microsoft uses honest and golden business tactics.  Thier tactics have been shady, yes, but no company is totally one hundred percent golden.  I just love how everyone jumps to conclusions on this board.  I'm through here.  It makes no difference to me what you think anyway, as Scuddie said, it's all about me, in the end. My personal experiences are worth more to me than some factual refrences in books or websites.  And when I undertake a project, I don't just look at it and throw my hands up in the air when I have a problem, I research.  I look on other forums, I read manuals, I do as much problem-solving that I can, and in the end, with my experiences (PLURAL, not just one singluar bad experience) with Linux have left me with more downtime and more pulled-out hair on my head. 

WGA, or shady business tactics used in the past will not prevent me from using software that WORKS. 


 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Quote
To me, it's just another reason to say Microsoft is evil. Nothing I ever say or do will convince you otherwise, ovbiously.
That's very theatrical you you but if you can honestly tell me that you think that Microsoft's popularity and richness came from positive, fair business practices I don't think there's any point in anyone attempting to point out the obviousness of how coloured a view that is.


 :wtf:

How in the hell you drew the conclusion you did from that statement I honestly cannot fathom. Nix was obviously anti-MS the whole post, his tone not sarcastic. This is not a particularly new attitude from him either.
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Offline Fury

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Everyone, please cool down a bit before this discussion gets out of hand. Thanks. :) It is beginning to look like a discussion about religions, the heat level's getting up there too. :D

 

Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
:wtf:

How in the hell you drew the conclusion you did from that statement I honestly cannot fathom. Nix was obviously anti-MS the whole post, his tone not sarcastic. This is not a particularly new attitude from him either.
Lot of crossed wires here it seems.

Calling a software company 'evil' just seemed a bit OTT to me. *shrugs*

I've made it very clear in other posts that I'm not in the least bit opposed to Windows for what it is; an OS that tries to make things as simple as possible. I don't understand why Nix decided I needed to be convinced or enlightened unless he is taking the other stance. It is quite possible to like linux and think that MS's way of doing things isn't bad which is what I assumed Nix was trying to say.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
I hope we get the black background back soon, you're posts are really hard to read Maeg :(

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
All HLPers except for Maeg: Hey...Is Maeg gone? I don't think anybody's seen him for a while...*whispers* *grins*
Setekh: Ok guys, it's time for a party! Pull out the Bosch Beer! Goob, if you say the word 'grammar' for the duration of the party you will be gagged and thrown to Carl. Tear down the Forum Guidelines threads! Bring out the Vasudan softcore-porn threads again. All resident Vasudans are welcome to use the hidden stash of Headz, but please do not...borrow...from living HLPers. Finally...All limits on number/size/length of poly count, textures, and table files are now cancelled!
Maeg: Ok, my font color is back now, sorry for the absence. Did I miss anything?
Setekh:  :sigh: Back to your posts, people.
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline Martinus

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
I'm always here.

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Big Maeg is always watching you...
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
I hope we get the black background back soon, you're posts are really hard to read Maeg :(

Just highlight his post. Much easier to read.
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Offline vyper

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Re: Running Windows? Perhaps it's time for a change.
Everyone, please cool down a bit before this discussion gets out of hand. Thanks. :) It is beginning to look like a discussion about religions, the heat level's getting up there too. :D

We're geeks this IS our religion!
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