[Nuclear1]

american football is fun.  Think of it as taking other people's land by force and wearing tight pants while your at it.

And that's the American way.

[aldo_14]

There's rampant classism involved along with a myriad of other domestic issues that I've become particularly sensitive to lately (and which I won't get in to here) but I guess my point is that the American sports media doesn't single soccer fans out as "Hooligans" because they want to pick on a foreign sport or to pander to any culteral or nationalistic attitudes; they do it (when they do it, it's not common at all) because it's not expected from soccer fans the way it is expected from NFL (or insert any "common" American sport) fans.

I disagree.  Every time I've seen football mentioned in imported US TV shows, it has always seemingly sought to stereotype fans (and actually English people in general) as hooligans.  The Simpsons in particular (being the most succesful US program in the UK) seems to do this a lot.  Let us not forget the comment that sparked this whole line of discussion;

But yea, for baseball to be understanding, you have to either play it or understand it. At least we're not fah-rea-king insane like all you Europeans about soccer! Mass riots? International wars? Jesus, and people make fun of Red Sox fans

[StratComm]

I disagree.  Every time I've seen football mentioned in imported US TV shows, it has always seemingly sought to stereotype fans (and actually English people in general) as hooligans.  The Simpsons in particular (being the most succesful US program in the UK) seems to do this a lot.  Let us not forget the comment that sparked this whole line of discussion;

I can't believe you're using the Simpsons as a counterargument.  Or can you actually provide one instance where blatent stereotyping at the lowest level isn't fundamental to the Simpsons' brand of humor?

Emphesis sports media.  I've watched a good bit of that over the last several years, and I can honestly say that it's a topic they almost never touch.  If anything, the passion exhibited by the fans at international soccer events is held almost with a degree of envy, its intensity only matched by the passion of fans at a select few college ball teams (basketball and football) in the states.  Don't confuse the emphesis on that passion with an emphesis on disorderly conduct in general, as it's not the same thing.

And I'm not talking about more entertainment-based shows, which is what you're far more likely to see in the UK and which tend to play off of existing stereotypes, commonly in a mocking way toward the stereotyping itself as much as the people on the receiving end.  Though I'll be honest, I have no idea what slice of the American media you're even seeing over there.

But yea, for baseball to be understanding, you have to either play it or understand it. At least we're not fah-rea-king insane like all you Europeans about soccer! Mass riots? International wars? Jesus, and people make fun of Red Sox fans

I make no excuses for the ignorance or self-importance of Red Sox fans.

[aldo_14]

And yet we get a US film about English hooliganism....  The Guardian article really makes the points I would want to about US portrayal of football.  If someone is equating mass riots to be a part of the sport, that spells to me some problem in perception, because I've not encountered that sort of attitude towards any other sport in any other country.  That the Simpsons' main if not only stereotype of the UK and football is hooliganism is important, because that stereotype exists for no good reason.  It's not unlike stereotyping the US as slavers, as both stereotypes are outdated and blatantly wrong.

NB: US sport coverage is utter, utter tripe, at least when it comes to footie coverage.  So I steer well clear of it; last time I was on holiday in the US during a world cup, I watched the matches on spanish channels.

[CaptJosh]

Why? Because I want to see about sort of Top Gun mod. You know.

Lovely. So now we can suit up in an F-14 and conduct physically impossible maneuvers against American planes "disguised" as MiGs that would outmaneuver an F-14 in any other situation, all the while listening to deafening 80's pop blasted into our faces to give the illusion of 'edge', all presented in such a way that would make a music-video director blanch. Sound's like riles of fun to me!*

*In case you haven't yet noticed, I really, really hate Top Gun.

You're an idiot. First of all, nobody said anything about using fake MiGs. The Spectrum Holobyte game TOP GUN: Fire at Will didn't use fakes. It had models of real world MiGs, Bear and Badger Bombers, etc...

Secondly, not all MiGs could outmaneuver an F-14.

Thirdly, maneuverability don't mean squat if you never even see what's shooting at you.

[Black Wolf]

None of your sporting opinions matter. None of your countries play AFL, which is really the only brand of football worth watching, and none of your countries can really play cricket properly (I haven't seen Singh in here yeyt, and before all you Poms start up, I still say England didn't win the Ashes, Australia lost the Ashes, thanks in large part to ****ing Kasprowicz). You may now continue your discussion to see what sports slot in after these princes of sports.

[aldo_14]

Cricket is rounders with added boredom (what other sport do people fall asleep at?), and AFL is so good no other country in the world can be arsed playing or watching it.

(NB: footy; most watched sport in the world; says it all really)

[Mefustae]

You're an idiot. First of all, nobody said anything about using fake MiGs. The Spectrum Holobyte game TOP GUN: Fire at Will didn't use fakes. It had models of real world MiGs, Bear and Badger Bombers, etc...

Secondly, not all MiGs could outmaneuver an F-14.

Thirdly, maneuverability don't mean squat if you never even see what's shooting at you.

Firstly, i'm talking about the movie, which i've heard [likely incorrectly, but I hate the movie so I don't care] used American planes and called 'em MiGs. Never once did I mention a game called 'Top Gun', nor have I ever heard of a game with the 'Top Gun' title, so settle down and take a pill.

Secondly, while that is true that 'not all MiGs could outmaneuver an F-14', the issue remains somewhat poignient when said F-14 pulls off a maneuver that is physically impossible for said craft to do. For instance, the maneuver Maverick pulls off early in the movie in which he is flying inverted mere centimetres from an enemy "MiG's" cockpit is nigh-on impossible for an F-14 to sustain anywhere near as long as he did. Indeed, an F-14's engines would fail in that situation, and Maverick  would have be proper ****ed. Personally, I loathe embelishments like that.

Thirdly, the aerial skirmishes seen in the film are close in, often using guns, meaning maneuverablity means quite a lot. Sure, it won't mean much when you get splashed by an American missile fired from upwards of 20 Kilometres away, but when dealing with a when that same American moronicly closes to 100 metres, maneuverablity suddenly means a whole lot more.

Oh, and thanks for the insult, we don't get enough of those around here these days!

[Ford Prefect]

You're such an idiot, Mefustae. You don't know **** about teh j3t f!ght3rz.

[Mefustae]

You're such an idiot, Mefustae. You don't know **** about teh j3t f!ght3rz.

Very true, but I know a lot about making it look like I know a lot about something to the untrained eye.

[achtung]

I wish I had the bull****ting skills of quite a few people on these boards.  Pulling six and seven page papers would be a breeze then.

[Dough with Fish]

Soccer.. bores me. I do watch it from time to time, but that sport sucks as a spectator sport. Playing it is a whole other story, or being at a game. But my sport is good old American football. That game be where its at. The intensity, the tactics, the violence, the energy, the bouts of randomness that occur. All good times.

What I fail to see, however, is why people say that football players are pussies for wearing pads. Have you people seen the kind of hits they take?! Yes, I have watched rugby, and the hits are mostly tame. Mostly. There are a few insane ones, but there is no real arieal stuff as in football. That, and 300lb-plus linemen trying to break your neck. Most of the time in rugby, from what I've seen, is once the ball carrier is hit, he just goes down. In football the runningback or reciever can try to stiffarm or just plow right past the defensive person.

Here are a few clips off YouTube to kind of illustrate my point. Ignore the fact that most of the people who made these have horrid taste in music, and there are a few clips shared between them.

1
2
3
4
5

[CaptJosh]

Trying to get back on the ORIGINAL topic, or at least something resembling it. I had a thought about the most difficult part of a Top Gun mod for FS2. How the hell do you do water with ships floating in it on this engine? Is it even doable?

[Mefustae]

*Chuckles at thread necrophelia*

Surfaces have been portrayed with considerable success [see: Starfox mod], but having a large ship cruising through a water-like surface while keeping it believable would be a task best left to those individuals more proficient in FS2's workings, and they've frankly got better things to do.

[aldo_14]

It is possible, but it'd be quite hard and rather crap looking; you'd need to simulate a wake effect with animated transparent textures, and you'd probably not be able to have any authentic looking movement.  Not to mention the problems with debris if the thing is blown up.

More crucially, perhaps, you wouldn't be able to do carrier takeoffs and landings due to the lack of any gravity.

[Unknown Target]

And now, on the Mystery Horror Picture Show...

*spooky voice*

The thread that wouldn't diieeeeee!!!!

[NGTM-1R]

The thread's going to be technically impossible in a few weeks, since they're sending the last of the F-14Ds to the boneyard.

[aldo_14]

The thread's going to be technically impossible in a few weeks, since they're sending the last of the F-14Ds to the boneyard.

It's all a coverup for them turning into transforming robot space planes that will invade Iran.

[Mars]

'Bout time, F-14's just aren't the super-advanced interceptors they once were. Do the Superhornets replace them, or is it JSF?

[NGTM-1R]

The reason they aren't the super-advanced interceptors they once were is because Congress decided they were willing to fund completely new and much more expensive aircraft instead of upgrading proven ones for about half the cost...