Author Topic: Starting info about models (pof files)  (Read 1658 times)

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Offline ARSPR

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Starting info about models (pof files)
Hi, I'm a quite nooby user of FS2, and I've always been just an user (I mean a player). But I would like to start learning about models (pof files), just to try fixing issues rather than to start being a modder. I've been playing a while with Modelview and PCS but I do have ten thousand questions. I've tried searching for "pof guide", "model guide" and within wiki but there is really few info. So, here are my MAIN questions:

+ Is there any kind of guide anywhere? (This is THE QUESTION)
+ What are paths? (I can imagine what are they for docking points but for turrets?)
+ Is it possible to move submodels within Modelview or PCS? (Or do you need TrueSpace 3DMax or any other?)

Thank you.
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLES WITH FS2:
  • Please, please, please, READ and UNDERSTAND the sticky threads in FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support board.
    A lot of people are willing to help you, but, as anyone can understand, seeing the very same "issues" repeated again and again can become quite depressing. Please, spend a bit of time trying to solve the issue by yourself.
    (Lobo deserves a monument).
  • Then, if you aren't still able to solve your issue, feel free to ask for help in that same board.
    FYI, most of the troubles are caused by wrong mod installations which lead to either missing data or undesired cross-effects between them. Always follow the mod installation instructions and keep a clean FS2 installation as explained in the sticky threads. Two additional links about how the game handles game data:
  • If you think that you've discovered a bug, mantis it.
    Provide as much info as you can, and try to narrow it down. A lonely "FS2 doesn't work" is not a good report.

Whoever Hanlon was: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Albert Einstein: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

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Offline Flipside

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
In answer to question one, your best bet at the moment is either the Freespace Wiki or theres a couple of links in Karajormas' FAQ...

Alas, having just checked the Wiki, it really needs more info in that department, I'll have to see if I can do anything to help there....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/intro.html

Kara's tutorial has a bit more help there, but I'll look into the Wiki thingy :)

As for Question 2, I think they are paths for ships to follow when attacking turrets, though I'm not certain if they are needed, I don't think so.

And finally, no, alas you cannot move submodels or alter the geometry in any particular way with PCS as far as I know :( Your best bet is Truespace, though personally, I design my models on Lightwave and then convert them to the Truespace format for final tweaking etc. :)

Hope that helps :)


 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
You can make a ship and put it in the game without any paths on turrets and subsystems and it will work just fine....until you tell a fighter to disable that subsystem. Then you'll get all kinds of stupidity going on (like fighters smacking into the hull trying to attack a subsystem on the other side of the ship).

The path tells the game how to make an attack run on that particular subsystem. 

Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
Hmmm... updating the modding section of the Wiki might just help me forget some of the stuff I've forgotten as well ;)

 
Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
Please do, Flipside - I've been lurking around here for a few months and want to learn how to mod FS2. I can't find a comprehensive guide except for Kajarama's and it has some holes in it.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
If you say what's missing it has a better chance of getting added at some point :) Bear in mind I'm not much of a modder (mosly a dabbler when it comes to ship building or effects) :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
I'm going to try and at least get some kind of basic ship creation guide done that includes the SCP stuff as well as the original Freespace 2 set-up. I'll have to learn how Bobbs detail boxes/animation code and things work as well, so it'll be good practice for me. I'll have to assume people are using Truespace and PCS, but since that's problably 85% of the people here, it should be ok :) I'll just really try to clarify some things and get the contents of several tutorials wrapped up into one bundle.

 
Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
Kajarama – I’m sorry if I offended you. :nod: You’ve got the best overall FS2 modding site I’ve found -- BY FAR! Thanks for the work. Your sight is probably more useful to folks who are more computer and game modding savvy than I. I’m a noob of the lowest caliber ;-)

If I’m going to be able to learn to mod FS2 in my limited spare time, I need a one stop shop that details each step of modding FS2 and in detail. Here’s an outline of what I’d like to see on FS2 Wiki.
                                                   
                                         FS2 for Dummies (Especially Me!)

1.   Getting Started Guide -- What do I need to get started with FS2. Where do I get it? What’s the best way to keep it updated? Provide links to the proven builds and editors and keep them updated (same goes for software needed for steps below).

2.   Comprehensive mission editing guide -- How to create a custom mission – single player and multiplayer if that is applicable. I know there is a FRED walkthrough but that’s just another thing to go look at – goal is one stop shop. Can I design story branches based on mission outcome? What programs do I need, where do I get them. Tutorial on how they work.

3.   Comprehensive modifying the  “extras” guide -- How do I change the little things – i.e. backgrounds, planets, asteroid belts, cut scenes, voice, animations, etc. What programs do I need, where do I get them. Tutorial on how they work.

4.   Comprehensive ship editing guide -- How do I edit current ships – how to change ships from load outs to textures to lights or moving parts. Are fighters modded the same as cap ships? If not then the different types of ships may need different sections. What programs do I need, where do I get them. Tutorial on how they work.

5.   Creating Custom Ships Guide -- How do we create new ships (comment on sections may be applicable here too). What are the max limits for ships if we decide to go for the whole enchilada, what is recommended for best performance. What are the programs we need to do it.
Tutorials on how to use them. I have several models ready to go but I’ve tried to use PCS and I’m lost...   :wtf:

6.   Complete STEP by STEP Walkthrough -- Finally give us some tools and an assignment to test everything out. Once the above is documented – a step by step guide on creating a simple ship (fighter and cap) and making some simple custom missions for them with some extras would be great. For instance, have a couple of sample COB meshes, small sample cut scenes, voices, and animations, etc. and an assignment in a zip file ready for download All should already be confirmed as compatible with FS2 and the programs  needed to mod it. Then give step by step assignments on what is desired. Let us see if we can figure it out using the above BUT if we can’t, have a step by step guide telling us the correct / preferred way of doing it.

I know I’m asking a lot. But having something of an educational background, I know this method will work ... not only for me but for lots of folks. The more successful modders, the more fun for all of us.

Kajarama – thanks again for all your work and Flipside thanks for the already added portion to the Wiki. More importantly thanks for doing all the projects I know each of you will give us in the future!
 ;7
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 07:59:04 pm by redneckf15 »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
I'm not offended (I suppose I did ask :D ) and I don't doubt it would be nice to have all that but it's a lot of hard work. The two biggest problems with updating stuff is the speed at which things change these days. The FAQ started off back in retail days. If I took a month to update that was fine cause nothing would have changed by the end of that month. Everyone would still be the same. We don't have that luxury now. There are fairly large changes to the code every month. Attempting to keep a guide up to date is a nightmare.

If you notice I don't give direct links to builds in my FAQ. The reason for that is simple. They change too often. I have personally released 4 or 5 new builds of FS2_Open in the last month or so. When RedMenace wasn't so busy he was doing it every day if there were changes.

 When it comes to mission design, the current walkthrough for instance represents several days work as it is. Updating it would be quite a task and to be honest I don't think you could actually make it comprehensive any more. You only need to look at the features that have been added this month to see how quickly it could get out of date.
 On top of that FREDding isn't exactly something you can learn just by reading about it. FREDding is something you learn by doing. Any attempt to make a comprehensive walkthrough for all the new FS2_Open features would probably end up confusing the poor person who read it by expecting them to grasp how to use fairly complex FREDding when they're still struggling with the basics.
 Also I feel that the FRED Academy is a better way to teach people how to use FRED anyway as it's much more hands on.

If someone were to make a more comprehensive guide than the current one I'd be happy to correct it and add in any omissions but doing the whole thing myself would be a lot of time I'd have to spend away from coding and FREDding which I tend to feel is a better way to spend my time. :) 

That said I'm always happy to add to the wiki whenever I have the time. In fact I was on my way there when I saw this :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
Feel free to add stuff there. I have been thinking of creating such reference pages but i feel like i dont know enough about certain subjects for writing guides for others and i have been somewhat busy.... or i may just have been lazy
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Starting info about models (pof files)
Well, I've updated the textures page in the Modding section to include all the current naming conventions etc, and I'm starting on the modelling section as well, hoping to add a PCS/Modelview section to help people through stuff like the chunk identifiers ($fov etc), placing thrusters/turret normals etc.

Theres a couple of points where work is going to be duplicated though, one section of Modding is called 'File Types'. Do we honestly need one big section regarding that? Surely it would be better to identify File types in the section that relates to them? Anyway, just a thought, I'll see what I can add to the Wiki in the next week or so :)