[WeatherOp]

It sickens me when GOPets run around and say "well you would have done it too!" all that you're doing is destroying the system. Destroying any attempt for those who want real conservatives for instance, you know the fiscally conservative small government ones? Then again I guess that the type of conservative like that is irrelevant.

First good laugh of the morning.

[Prophet]

yeah, as soon as i have a good skill foundation, i'm moving to europe somewhere.

america's become the land of wasted opportunity

i sadly concur - i'm actually considering moving to UK or germany - my fiancee is actually learning german in school

I recommend smaller countries to move in. Smaller the country, the less the goverment has to **** up. Benelux countries could be good targets for migration, only they are already packed full and will probably be engulfed by the sea in a few years (or they will engulf the sea). Scandinavia is also a good target. In Finland you need to drink beer throught the whole summer (or else you won't fit in). In Sweden you have the police force thats incompentece is often good source of hilarity (at least around here). And in Norway when you take a one step downhill you get about 10 meters closer to sea level. And if you know english, you will do just fine (in Finland, and likely everywhere else in Europe too). And unlike the american propaganda claims, scandinavia is not a cold place to be (exept during winters ofcourse).
 Small countries don't have the habit of interfering in other countries business, and are thus never targeted by terrorists. And Scandinavia has the advantage of never having to endure any major natural disasters, or diseases.

[Kazan]

It sickens me when GOPets run around and say "well you would have done it too!" all that you're doing is destroying the system. Destroying any attempt for those who want real conservatives for instance, you know the fiscally conservative small government ones? Then again I guess that the type of conservative like that is irrelevant.

First good laugh of the morning.

yup since fiscally responsible conservatives haven't existed for half a century - but we're currently seeing fiscal conservatism at it's finest in washington - spend spend spend on things we don't need and get no benefit from (except for your rich donor's companies and your top 1% of the population base having to pay a lower tax burdeon than everyone else) with no way to pay for those expenditures

small government conservatives are also extinct - but efficient government that actually respects the constitution is better than "small government"

[aldo_14]

I wouldn't recommend the UK if you want to move anywhere democratic.....

[Ace]

First good laugh of the morning.

Confusion: Fascinating, it appears that the sections of the cerebral cortex regulating humor are deformed in these subjects. They don't laugh at Colbert at the White House press dinner and yet they find serious discourse humorous.

Proclamation: These meatbags should be dissected... for further... inquiry...

[Nuclear1]

yeah, as soon as i have a good skill foundation, i'm moving to europe somewhere.

america's become the land of wasted opportunity

i sadly concur - i'm actually considering moving to UK or germany - my fiancee is actually learning german in school

So, instead of actually staying around to fix the problems at home, you're going to play the 60s hippie and run off somewhere else to keep complaining until someone else fixes the problem for you?

So woo-pee-****ing-doo--the Baby Boomers (from both sides) ****ed up the country. It's up to the following generations of Americans to fix what's been done and end the downward spiral that we're going in.

[Turambar]

or, a horrible burn victim wearing a mask to blow up congress

[aldo_14]

Well, your elections could be worse.

[Kazan]

So, instead of actually staying around to fix the problems at home, you're going to play the 60s hippie and run off somewhere else to keep complaining until someone else fixes the problem for you?

So woo-pee-****ing-doo--the Baby Boomers (from both sides) ****ed up the country. It's up to the following generations of Americans to fix what's been done and end the downward spiral that we're going in.

you know, i used the same argumentation-  but if things keep going the way they are in this country there won't be any shred of real america left to seize upon and rebuild from - I've been fighting the good fight in my own way and seeing america slip further and further from what she was and what she should be and closer and closer to a fascist state - despite my title I am not Don Quixote, i do eventually give up all hope of making a difference


people put their political party and personal fears and religion above the constitution and the country - they care more for their own team winning than that team following the laws, they will give up any and every freedom of their team asks it - this is almost entirely a one-sided political phenomina - one that "conservatives" have a near monpoly on

[Kosh]

So, instead of actually staying around to fix the problems at home, you're going to play the 60s hippie and run off somewhere else to keep complaining until someone else fixes the problem for you?

Ok then hot shot, what do you suggest we do?

Part of the problem is that not enough people really care about where the future of the country is going, and the ones who do care are ignored/shunned. If you were in a position where you didn't have the direct ability to do something about a problem, but you also couldn't get enough people to care, what would you do?

[Nuclear1]

So, instead of actually staying around to fix the problems at home, you're going to play the 60s hippie and run off somewhere else to keep complaining until someone else fixes the problem for you?

Ok then hot shot, what do you suggest we do?

Part of the problem is that not enough people really care about where the future of the country is going, and the ones who do care are ignored/shunned. If you were in a position where you didn't have the direct ability to do something about a problem, but you also couldn't get enough people to care, what would you do?

You're right in one sense, but if everyone already hates Bush and the Neo-cons, the upcoming elections are likely going to result in Republicans losing seats in US and state congressional bodies. America has gone too far right, but hopefully a period with the left in power will restore some kind of middle ground.

Then it really is up to the next generation; we can hopefully keep the baby boomer generation in line long enough for us to enter the political arena and go to work. America's youth mostly has a level head on from what I know, but there are of course exceptions...

Still, I was out of line with that earlier comment, and I apologize to both Kaz and Kosh. It still doesn't change the fact that I can't stand expatriatism, but I'm sorry that it came out as a personal attack.

people put their political party and personal fears and religion above the constitution and the country - they care more for their own team winning than that team following the laws, they will give up any and every freedom of their team asks it - this is almost entirely a one-sided political phenomina - one that "conservatives" have a near monpoly on

True. Just like Ben Franklin once said: "Those who give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Too many Americans do operate by simply surrendering themselves to parties and groups without taking the time to formulate their own opinions, and that really is the most tragic aspect of it all.

[Goober5000]

You're right in one sense, but if everyone already hates Bush and the Neo-cons, the upcoming elections are likely going to result in Republicans losing seats in US and state congressional bodies. America has gone too far right, but hopefully a period with the left in power will restore some kind of middle ground.

Do you really think that'll make a difference?  It's looking increasingly likely that Hillary will be elected in 2008.

I'm beginning to think that the debate over left-wing/right-wing in America is a red herring.  The debate should be over centralization/decentralization.  I wouldn't mind having a Democrat for president if he acted like Grover Cleveland, for example.

[Kazan]

Do you really think that'll make a difference?  It's looking increasingly likely that Hillary will be elected in 2008.

right wingers: "hillary is going to be president! hillary is going to be the democratic nominee!!!!"
left wingers: "oh really, we don't particularily care for her for the most part."
right wingers: "hillary is going to be president! hillary is going to be the democratic nominee!!!!"
left wingers: "i don't think so, she certainly isn't the favorite of anyone but right wingers"
right wingers: "hillary is going to be president! hillary is going to be the democratic nominee!!!!"
left wingers: "whatever"

Hillary is the establishment "favorite", guess what: democrats don't blindly follow their establishment, most of them are rather irritated with it at the moment.  I don't think the establishment favorite has a shred of a chance.  Hillary is a pro-censorship, pro-misguided-gun-control dumbass who doesn't have anything resembling a clear front runner status - but you ring wingers like to try and "Scare" your base with her and act like democrats are IN LOVE with that carpetbagging attention whore

guess what? we're not.

I'm beginning to think that the debate over left-wing/right-wing in America is a red herring.  The debate should be over centralization/decentralization.  I wouldn't mind having a Democrat for president if he acted like Grover Cleveland, for example.

I'm for centralization/decentralization on a case-by-case basis when it makes sense.  Federal governemnt is better at doing disaster prepairedness stuff (when FEMA is run properly like it was under clinton - see 1993) - but states are probably better at managing their individual education systems [some much better than others].

I'm for efficient government, not necessarily small government.

Government should also be the **** out of people's private lives - no "you cannot broadcast that!", no "you cannot marry them!", none of that garbage.  No wiretapping without warrants.

[Goober5000]

Hillary is the establishment "favorite", guess what: democrats don't blindly follow their establishment, most of them are rather irritated with it at the moment.  I don't think the establishment favorite has a shred of a chance.  Hillary is a pro-censorship, pro-misguided-gun-control dumbass who doesn't have anything resembling a clear front runner status - but you ring wingers like to try and "Scare" your base with her and act like democrats are IN LOVE with that carpetbagging attention whore

She's not just the front runner, she's the ONLY runner.  Nobody else is on the radar.  She's also maneuvering like one: she's tacking center, and she's already got a fan club running "draft Hillary" campaigns.  Meanwhile she personally is only focusing on her Senate re-election campaign.

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I'm stating a prediction.  Trying to motivate the base into voting Republican is a poor solution because they're nearly as bad as the Democrats nowadays.  I'd rather a third-party be in power (even the Greens) then either of them.

And agreed, most of the Democrats don't like her either, but I'd bet they'd prefer to see her in office than a Republican.

[Flipside]

Well, a lot of the Youth vote for Hilary hangs on her 'Anti-Violent Games' bill, I feel that preaching to the younger half of the American public is possibly the stupidest thing Hilary could hae done, she's lost a massive amount of backing because of it.

[karajorma]

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I'm stating a prediction.  Trying to motivate the base into voting Republican is a poor solution because they're nearly as bad as the Democrats nowadays.  I'd rather a third-party be in power (even the Greens) then either of them.

So I presume that you absolutely won't be voting republican at the next election then?

Cause I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "The democrats are as bad as the republicans" and then going out and voting republican. If you think they're both as bad as each other why in hell would you vote for either of them? Vote for a third party or simply abstain and let those who actually have a real preferance choose.

[aldo_14]

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I'm stating a prediction.  Trying to motivate the base into voting Republican is a poor solution because they're nearly as bad as the Democrats nowadays.  I'd rather a third-party be in power (even the Greens) then either of them.

So I presume that you absolutely won't be voting republican at the next election then?

Cause I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "The democrats are as bad as the republicans" and then going out and voting republican. If you think they're both as bad as each other why in hell would you vote for either of them? Vote for a third party or simply abstain and let those who actually have a real preferance choose.

Is anyone else thinking Kodos and Kang, here? 

[vyper]

"Go ahead! Waste you vote!"

[IceFire]

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I'm stating a prediction.  Trying to motivate the base into voting Republican is a poor solution because they're nearly as bad as the Democrats nowadays.  I'd rather a third-party be in power (even the Greens) then either of them.

So I presume that you absolutely won't be voting republican at the next election then?

Cause I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "The democrats are as bad as the republicans" and then going out and voting republican. If you think they're both as bad as each other why in hell would you vote for either of them? Vote for a third party or simply abstain and let those who actually have a real preferance choose.

Is anyone else thinking Kodos and Kang, here? 

I voted for Kodos...



If you guys had a real parliamentary system back there in 2000 and 2004 you would have had minority governments both times and everyone would have to hug and work together to get anything passed.  That would have been so refreshing to see down there....but you folks don't have a system like that.  Winner takes all.

Thank god it doesn't work like that up here or Harper would probably be on a rampage.  You know...I actually find myself not minding what Harper's done so far.  Maybe there's hope for at least a few people in that party.

[karajorma]

"Go ahead! Waste you vote!"

Well if you see no difference between the two main parties it's a waste anyway.