[AlphaOne]

planted 15 trees so far involved miself in ecological fundations that helped to educate people on the hazards of polution domestic and industrial. Involved miself in a few ecological actions in mi home city. Basicly di what the sanitation department should of done in the reservations of wildlife and fauna.

Oh and I have NOT bommed civilians nore have i tortured anyone else or killed or maimed or crippeled or well basicly left carnage and destruction behind me.

It mai not sound like much but is a hell of more then the US gouverment is dooing.

Edited:

Actualy that is not quite the case with the romans. Sure they did a lot of killing in wars. And have even destroyed some civilizations. But they did not comepletely replace cultures with theyr own. They asimilated the otehr cultures into theyr own. At least to some degree.

Also not all of the conquered civ. were torn apart by the roman legions. In fact most of the tribes and civ. conquered by the romans were left relatively intact with theyr culture almost intact. Also they enjoied a much more peacefull way of live under roman rule then they di before with all the fighting between the tribes and stuff.

I'm not sayng that all these empires were a peacefull utopia like place but they sure as hell werent as bad as the US.

[Grug]

Yet you can't take a few moments to learn that its MY not "mi" or doing not dooing. /rant

I'm definitly no fan of the US but I know that they are not all a pack of tards. Where are you from btw?

[AlphaOne]

Never said the were all evil or something like that just theyr leaders whome I believe are a buch of maniacs and evil people gready as hell and well i think theyre a buch of nazies. Especialy Bush who sounds like Hitler with each passing speach. Heil Uberfuhrer Bush???.
Sounded a lot better with the other guys name.

I actualy have a great deal of respect for the US people for their power over the leaders of the nation. And for the way the take each coming blow...i mean with a sence of optimism. I just love that. No matter how hard they get hit they tri to make the best of it and move on with theyr lives without waiting for others to help.

I'm from Romania !

[Mefustae]

Never said the were all evil or something...

No, of course not. You simply took two especially bloodthirsty and genocidal Empires, ignored all the bloodthirsty and genocidal parts, and concluded that they are good. Conversely, you took the US, ignored any and all good they have accomplished, and concluded that they are the spawn of Satan in comparison.

By your logic, one can conclude that the Third Reich "ain't that bad" because they certainly left their mark on the world, and remember all the good they did! They brought Germany out of the depression, and rebuilt the  shattered nation to almost superpower proportions! Sure, they did a few bad things here and there, but they're a darn sight better than them Americans! Those damn Americans started a war that has killed thousands! Thousands! And they've bombed civilians, and killed children and bunny-rabbits and kittens! Now why couldn't they be more like the Third Reich? What a perfect world that would be.


That, my good comrade, is what you sound like. See how silly that sounds?

[Colonol Dekker]

We were never Genocidal, otherwise india and north africa and China would be wastelands ........
Occupational is more the term.

[aldo_14]

Umm as far as i know the british empire built railroades and hospital and schools in every major colony it had.

Also the Roman empire sure it fough a lot o wars but it also helped educate and civilize the barbarian civilizations it ocupied. Letf roades and engineering and stuff like that. Not to mention hospitals were sort of hospitals.

Each empire across the time has left something behind something that influenced civilizations to come.

What has the US left behind except bombs,mines, crippled children and women well basicly carnage and destruction. Nothing good nothing positive.

Um.... the roman empires' idea of civillizing the natives was no less brutal and ethnic-cleansing like than any other ancient empires'.  Whilst they 'left' things like roads behind, they were really purely for the benefit of Romans, not the locals (i.e. roads to swiftly move armies about to suppress and rebellion).

To go back onto the Romans; every time there was a rebellion against them, it would be (to quote the wikipedia) drowned in blood.  i.e. any opponents of the emperor, would be killed.  For example; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_rebellion

The first Jewish-Roman War (66–73), sometimes called the Great Jewish Revolt, was the first of three major rebellions by the Jews of Iudaea Province against the Roman Empire (the second was the Kitos War in 115–117, the third was Bar Kokhba's revolt, 132–135). It began in 66, sparked by religious violence between the Jews and the Hellenists; it ended when legions under Titus besieged and destroyed Jerusalem, looted and burned Herod's Temple (70) and Jewish strongholds (notably Masada in 73), and enslaved or massacred a large part of the Jewish population. The defeat of the Jewish revolts against the Roman Empire notably contributed to the numbers and geography of the Jewish Diaspora, as many Jews were scattered after losing their state or were sold into slavery throughout the empire.

Or, Spartacus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Servile_War#Aftermath_of_the_war)

While most of the rebel slaves had been killed on the battlefield, some 6,000 survivors had been captured by the legions of Crassus. As an object lesson, all 6,000 were crucified along the road between Rome and Capua[10]. It is unclear as to whether those slaves captured by Pompey while fleeing the battle were among those crucified.

Hmm.... lovely.

Likewise the British empire, and indeed colonialism in general of the (very rough timeperiod) 1800, which was often essentially a big land-rape of the Middle East and Africa, destroying the culture and way of life of the inhabitants in favour of forcing upon the occupiers and 'civillising the savages'.

The only positive aspects that come out of any occupation arise from the struggle for freedom, not the occupiers.  Otherwise that is a carte blanche excuse for any invasion, regardless of the consequences if and when it fails.

We were never Genocidal, otherwise india and north africa and China would be wastelands ........
Occupational is more the term.

That depends to a degree whether the destruction and, um, 'anglicisation' of cultures isn't genocidal in it's own way.

[Mefustae]

Damn it, Aldo. Why the hell can you always put things a hell of a lot more succinctly than I can?! A pox on thee!!

We were never Genocidal, otherwise india and north africa and China would be wastelands ........
Occupational is more the term.

I take it you mean the British Empire. Read up on the Tasmanian Aborigines, it's an interesting tale of how we wiped out an entire people. That, is genocide.

[AlphaOne]

Never said the were all evil or something...

No, of course not. You simply took two especially bloodthirsty and genocidal Empires, ignored all the bloodthirsty and genocidal parts, and concluded that they are good. Conversely, you took the US, ignored any and all good they have accomplished, and concluded that they are the spawn of Satan in comparison.


That, my good comrade, is what you sound like. See how silly that sounds?

Comrade??!! Umm and you are the one whose telling me about how shortsited I am right?? Sure whatever you say.

Oh and btw. the roman empire streched like what several hundredds of years ??? All those things ahppened over a very long period of time. However that does not make it right. Also from the roades and othe infrastructures benefited the economy and trade not anly the army.

Whyle the Us got itself involved in like what 2 WW and countless other wars. Killed like what a few milion peoples during this time exterminated the native indians to whome the Us actualy belongs and...well shall i go on?? Oh and please do tell me the great industrial achievements that the US left behind for the ocupied shattered civ., or the great architectural wonders or something that they actualy did good of a suficient scale as to remember them by?

And dont tell me about the hospitals they built whic they were the ones who bemmed them in the firs place or the schools they raised wich also they were the ones who leveled them in the first place or the roades.

Also where on eart did you see me saing that the 3'rd Reich was a good thing???

AS I said I don think the US people are as you put it spwn from hell just they administration who sound act and i this keeps up look like the dreaded nazis from WW2 .

Now was i clear enough for you "COMRADE" !

[aldo_14]

Marshall plan?

[AlphaOne]

umm and that was implememnted after the US and the UK decided to level all of germany with carpet bomming. Right I can see now why the Marshall plan was such a good thing.

Now seroisly I couldnt care less about the Marshall plan. That plan was brought into effect after the US and the UK army's decided in they increadible wisdom to level to the ground half of europe in carpet bomming runs day and night.

Also lets not forget the whole agreement between the 3 winning powers to split up Europe. As if they had a right to do that. What was Europe then some cheap peace of cheese to be cut up as they saw fit. For that I will alwais hate bothe the US and the UK.

They left more then half of europe under the rule of the comunists. that is 45 years till we had a so called revolution. I will never ever stop hating the US and the UK for this. But that is another thing which has nothing to do with the above stated arguements regarding the US.

[Colonol Dekker]

No such ting as an innocent people its all down to your place in the event, perpective, opinion and what side of the fence you sit on.  or  Its all relative.

[Flipside]

Makes you wonder what the Romans said about the Greek Empire etc, they all got where they were if not by atrocities, then at least whilst commiting them.

Every power will give you reasons why their idea is best, after all, that's how they hold onto power.

It's not right. But it's very very human

[aldo_14]

umm and that was implememnted after the US and the UK decided to level all of germany with carpet bomming. Right I can see now why the Marshall plan was such a good thing.

Now seroisly I couldnt care less about the Marshall plan. That plan was brought into effect after the US and the UK army's decided in they increadible wisdom to level to the ground half of europe in carpet bomming runs day and night.

Welcome to total warfare in an era with unguided munitions.

What did you expect?  "Sorry old chap, how about you stop using those factories and we'll call back the bombers, eh?  Bravo, chop chop."

Also lets not forget the whole agreement between the 3 winning powers to split up Europe. As if they had a right to do that. What was Europe then some cheap peace of cheese to be cut up as they saw fit. For that I will alwais hate bothe the US and the UK.

They left more then half of europe under the rule of the comunists. that is 45 years till we had a so called revolution. I will never ever stop hating the US and the UK for this. But that is another thing which has nothing to do with the above stated arguements regarding the US.

Right, because the best way to react to the end of a World War (with heavy rationing still in place) is to start another?

Seriously, get a grip.  No-one likes that the soviets ****ed up Eastern europe.  But if you're expecting the response to the end of WW2 - a conflict that decimated much of europe and the economy of the UK and US - could in any way involve engaging a massive Soviet army, you're up a gum tree.  (there's an arguement, too, that the US nuked Japan because of the fear that the Soviet army sweeping down through the likes of Manchuria would invade and conquer Japan if the war wasn't ended ASAP)

You're essentially blaming the US, and the UK, for the actions of the USSR.  Presumably, I dunno, a big boy made them occupy romania et al, and then ran away.

[Mefustae]

Comrade??!! Umm and you are the one whose telling me about how shortsited I am right?? Sure whatever you say.

Oh and btw. the roman empire streched like what several hundredds of years ??? All those things ahppened over a very long period of time. However that does not make it right. Also from the roades and othe infrastructures benefited the economy and trade not anly the army.

Whyle the Us got itself involved in like what 2 WW and countless other wars. Killed like what a few milion peoples during this time exterminated the native indians to whome the Us actualy belongs and...well shall i go on?? Oh and please do tell me the great industrial achievements that the US left behind for the ocupied shattered civ., or the great architectural wonders or something that they actualy did good of a suficient scale as to remember them by?

And dont tell me about the hospitals they built whic they were the ones who bemmed them in the firs place or the schools they raised wich also they were the ones who leveled them in the first place or the roades.

Also where on eart did you see me saing that the 3'rd Reich was a good thing???

AS I said I don think the US people are as you put it spwn from hell just they administration who sound act and i this keeps up look like the dreaded nazis from WW2 .

Now was i clear enough for you "COMRADE" !

Calm down mate, you'll live longer.

Honestly, drop the Roman Empire thing. Yes, everyone knows they were a "beacon of civilisation in an uncivilised age", but I fail to see why you suddenly identify with Roman "civilisation" and believe it to be the be-all and end-all of cultures. History teaches us that every time a nation or power has  attempted to "civilise" a foreign people, they have ended up destroying both the local culture, and sometimes the very people they are trying to "civilise". A nation that prides itself on "civilising" foreign culture a la the old British Empire should be reviled, not revered.

Why the hell are you comparing the US to the Romans or British anyway? Honestly, I fail to see any notable similarity that is not shared by a host of other contemporary nations. It's nothing new that the US is hypocritical, corrupt, and power-hungry, but there are far worse things in this world than the US, and you'd be good to note that.

One last thing; why the fuzzy hell are you getting so worked up at my addressing you as my 'comrade'? Edit: Oh,  right, the whole Communist connotations of it, yeah... well, I use the term commonly in its capacity as a term of mateship, so don't take it personally.

[aldo_14]

One last thing; why the fuzzy hell are you getting so worked up at my addressing you as my 'comrade'?

You're obviously a dirty red commie-westerner-fascist-capitalist-humourist-(not)american, who carved up europe like a piece of fine Gouda, i guess.

[Colonol Dekker]

You can see that "Domineering" aspect in some threads all over the net where people try and drive their opinion down your throat without letting up one bit. I always try and accept other views   Brits might be arsey in the past but we were always polite as we did it

[Mefustae]

You can see that "Domineering" aspect in some threads all over the net where people try and drive their opinion down your throat without letting up one bit. I always try and accept other views  Brits might be arsey in the past but we were always polite as we did it

Quite true, and i'll always respect the reflex response the British always had to a large conflict; 'steady-on lads, let's hold a meeting/conference/kegger!!'

[Colonol Dekker]

The most accurate scene which portrays our cast iron national balls, is in Zulu where the enemy are banging their shields (non energy variety ) and the Sergeant gets one of the Privates to do his jacket button up.  Cant go to war scruffy now can we sunny jim 

[AlphaOne]

Its only human nature to step on the week to achieve your goals.

There is no such thing as a good empire but there is such a thing as empires better then others. Its just a mater of how bad in comparison the least bad ones they are situated.

Oh and I was trapped behind the Iron courtain. Hows that for bummer..???!!! I laugh about it now but mi parrents sure as hell didnt laugh....neighter did mi grandfather who had to watch close ones taken  by the russians into concentration camps in Siberia. Needless to say they did not come back.


Also never said i dont agree with the bomming of german industry but there is a whole difference form bomming factories and bommbing cities to rubble just so that you might convince them to surrender. Oh and even when they noticed the whole "bomme'm into a pshicotic depression so that they will lose theyr fighting spirit" stuff didnt work they never stopped. So i fail to see the humanitarian and sincere effort made to help Europe through the Marshall plan thing.

Also that plan was just put in place in order to stop the commies from getting hold of the entier Europe. It had nothing to do with humanitarian aid. It was all politics, money, and well milatary tactics.

[Colonol Dekker]

In all honesty bombing their factories was quite tame compared to the mass slaughter of millions of innocent Jewissh people. Oh yeah and invading Poland also