[Kazan]

yeah because sliding tackles that leave marks are not more dangerous than ones that do not

you just don't wish to admit you're wrong

[IceFire]

give it up - it was a bad call, even this same ref isn't making that same call in other matches for far more dangerous sliding tackles

Every situation is different.  The decision made in one match will never be exactly the same as a decision made in another match because each situation is unique.  This is not well understood by folks who have never done the job.  So you just cannot make that sort of argument.  Part of the determining factor is perceived intent...that can't be done by algorithm or by robot...a human has to make a judgement call and thus that human has to employ his decision making facilities and cannot be robotic about it in any way.

As an aside I'll suggest that you folks drop it. As usual Kazan you're unwilling to drop an argument after its been started and others here are goading you on.  I don't want to see you or anyone else drawn into a flame war and possible repercussions. We aren't there yet thanks to some incredible restraint but we're getting there.  Discuss if you want to continue but the swearing needs to be toned down.  Thats all I'll say.  I don't mind a good debate...heck I'm taking part

[aldo_14]

yeah because sliding tackles that leave marks are not more dangerous than ones that do not

you just don't wish to admit you're wrong

so are you saying if you try to kick someone in the head and just miss, it's not dangerous, but if you do hit someone on the leg or somesuch, it is?  I've had hundreds of miscellaneous knocks and injuries in my time, and having a mark alone does not imply intent.

[Kazan]

this isn't a good debate because no matter how much I point out that this call was A) not sanctioned by the LOTG, B) is inconsistent with the rest of the calls in the cup, etc it just gets ignored by aldo et al

you just scream "it's a good call!" - i can understand refs being somewhat partisan to refs - but grow a pair and admit that it was a bad call - should have been a yellow card - a very justified yellowcard (hey i've given concession on that! at first it didn't even look like a yellow to me from the angle I had)


aldo: the foul i was refering to was the on on Ronaldo - no way to defend the Pablo red card as justified when the dude who committed that foul gets a yellow only

[aldo_14]

Video.

Pundits.

Agree.

Job done.

You can dance around it all the time you want, but take that foul on video, and it's dangerous and reckless - a lunge - and thats a red card under the guidelines for this world cup.

[Shade]

The fact that other refs may have failed to act when they should, does not mean this ref was wrong. I'll reiterate what I've said before, if worse fouls than this were committed, I certainly think they ought to have given straight reds also. But lets face it, sometimes a ref either doesn't see it, sees it from a bad angle, is afraid of being/looking biased if he has made a lot of calls against the team already, or hell in some cases I think they just don't have the guts to send a man off.

This ref just happened to have a perfect view to the foul, from just 15 feet away, and he was not afraid to call it as he saw it. Right or wrong, it's done. And the US still has a decent chance for advancement - If Italy beat the Czechs (which seems likely), and the US beats Ghana, that will do it.

[Night Hammer]

i cant figure out why youre still *****ing about this 


the games over, the reds been given, youre constant talking like a jackass wont change that


everyone in the world, save our american commentators which have no credibility, say it was deserved

its over, move on, hope they get lucky against ghana and get help from someone else on the GD

[Kazan]

The fact that other refs may have failed to act when they should, does not mean this ref was wrong. I'll reiterate what I've said before, if worse fouls than this were committed, I certainly think they ought to have given straight reds also. But lets face it, sometimes a ref either doesn't see it, sees it from a bad angle, is afraid of being/looking biased if he has made a lot of calls against the team already, or hell in some cases I think they just don't have the guts to send a man off.

This ref just happened to have a perfect view to the foul, from just 15 feet away, and he was not afraid to call it as he saw it. Right or wrong, it's done. And the US still has a decent chance for advancement - If Italy beat the Czechs (which seems likely), and the US beats Ghana, that will do it.

you'd have an argument if it was it was occasionally

but it's not

even by the SAME REFEREE

the pablo red card was the singular exception, not the rule

[Kie99]

He's the worst referee in football because you disagree with a decision he made?

[aldo_14]

He's the worst referee in football because you disagree with a decision he made?

Yup.

[Colonol Dekker]

I think this thread should merge with the world cup one.........

[Kazan]

He's the worst referee in football because you disagree with a decision he made?

No because he's making calls inconsistently with the rest of the calls he, and every other referee, are making in this cup - and he was buying every italian dive hook line and sinker

[Ford Prefect]

I don't have a clue what you guys are talking about, but I have decided that I disagree with Kazan.

[Kie99]

He's the worst referee in football because you disagree with a decision he made?

No because he's making calls inconsistently with the rest of the calls he, and every other referee, are making in this cup - and he was buying every italian dive hook line and sinker

One bad match makes him the "Worst Referee in the history of Soccer"?  Get your head out of your arse.

[Shade]

I actually heard a radio interview with FIFA supervisor for the referees during this WC this morning (he's a Dane, hence our radio getting the interview ). Note again that we're talking about the top FIFA official on referee matters during the world cup here. He was asked about the line of the referees so far, and in his answer singled out 3 games where the ref had been particularly good. One of them, USA vs Italy. The important part, roughly translated: "3 red cards were given, all of them correct". He considered the elbow attack the worst of the 3, but they were all correct.

So that's the official FIFA opinion on the matter.

For anyone who happens to understand danish, the program is available online at http://www.dr.dk/netradio/ -> P3 -> Go' Morgen P3. 3 hours long though so you'd best be patient. Can skip forward but I can't remember exactly when the interview was.

[aldo_14]

Pff.  What would a FIFA official know about the 'LOTG'!!11one ROFLMAO STFU!

[Goober5000]

It looks to me like a red card too, but there's a sizeable number who disagree with it.  For instance, the commentator in this video:
http://usa.worldcupblog.org/group-e/the-mastroeni-tackle.html

Also, this guy (born in the US but living in Italy) calls the red card "absurd".  Though Kazan will probably discount his opinion on the grounds that he writes for WND.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2006/06/fortunate-anomaly.html

[IceFire]

this isn't a good debate because no matter how much I point out that this call was A) not sanctioned by the LOTG, B) is inconsistent with the rest of the calls in the cup, etc it just gets ignored by aldo et al

you just scream "it's a good call!" - i can understand refs being somewhat partisan to refs - but grow a pair and admit that it was a bad call - should have been a yellow card - a very justified yellowcard (hey i've given concession on that! at first it didn't even look like a yellow to me from the angle I had)


aldo: the foul i was refering to was the on on Ronaldo - no way to defend the Pablo red card as justified when the dude who committed that foul gets a yellow only

Debates are about considering ideas...not about winning arguments.  Pretty much everyone else disagrees with you but we know exactly what you are saying about the situation and hopefully you know exactly what we are. Thats all there is to it.  Why do we have to agree with you?  Why do you swear at people who don't?

[Roanoke]

I think he has insecurity issues.......

[Fineus]

I think we should take a breather and probably let this thread die. It doesn't look like an agreement will be reached and in that case the arguement will become circular.