[aldo_14]

If you include the multiplayer briefings.

I'm inclined to treat the multiplayer missions as not canon, or maybe semi-canon, due to the number of inconsistencies and cans of worms involved.

That'd be my inclination.  Particularly as IIRC Volition used to give approval to fan-missions for MP, which would mean they were more or less allowing fanon-as-canon if MP missions were canon, and I doubt that would be their likely intent.

[Colonol Dekker]

:V: had to validate missions, and dont forget, i know it was a few years back, but :V: used to release mission as well to re-centre balance issues. :V: MP mission packs were like gold dust when FS2 @ PXO was starting out....

Its only the fuxards who would edit a pre-apporved filenam and whack a "grant-promotion"on the end of a directive to cheat. Like certain members of RN (roughnecck sqdrn LOA's evil arch enemies).

  I miss my squad............Muahahahah

[CP5670]

I can't see any reason at all why the Volition-designed multiplayer missions are not canon for FS universe purposes. They detail quite a few additional events that occur during the main campaign. There are a small number of inconsistencies, but they are quite minor and you can also find similar issues in most of the other FS2 material. The validated usermade missions are a different matter, but the Volition missions are easily on the same level as the main campaign ones.

[Prophet]

MP missions may have details about event and story. But you have to remember that the missions are ultimatley balanced for multiplayer. And highly likely placed balance and gameplay over story and "reality". Thus they could have thrown in an NTF Hecate just because player never got to go against them in the campaing. I'd classify MP as semi-canon.

[Colonol Dekker]

Story wouldnt have been changed that much surely?..........

[CP5670]

MP missions may have details about event and story. But you have to remember that the missions are ultimatley balanced for multiplayer. And highly likely placed balance and gameplay over story and "reality". Thus they could have thrown in an NTF Hecate just because player never got to go against them in the campaing. I'd classify MP as semi-canon.

That applies equally well to the singleplayer missions though. In terms of the story, it doesn't make sense to have Alpha 1 single handedly wreaking havoc in many of the missions, but that makes it more fun from a gameplay point of view.

[AlphaOne]

Oki now here is where i go balistic ! You guis treat every twich and inonsitenci in the FS singleplayer as canon that is not to be disputed and yet when something doesnt agree with you or you think it highly unlikely you make it se-canon or whatever. If its V made or aproved then its cannon i dont care what theyr goal was. Aldo and several other members of the forum beat that into mi head . Then if you can say that things like these should be semi-canon or something like that then i can say the same for the Sobek numbers motivating that Volition maibe just wanted to add some more drama to the story and a sence of complete failure and remorse over the failed mission.

See where i'm gooing?

[Nuclear1]

Oki now here is where i go balistic ! You guis treat every twich and inonsitenci in the FS singleplayer as canon that is not to be disputed and yet when something doesnt agree with you or you think it highly unlikely you make it se-canon or whatever. If its V made or aproved then its cannon i dont care what theyr goal was. Aldo and several other members of the forum beat that into mi head . Then if you can say that things like these should be semi-canon or something like that then i can say the same for the Sobek numbers motivating that Volition maibe just wanted to add some more drama to the story and a sence of complete failure and remorse over the failed mission.

See where i'm gooing?

Yes, we see, but the fact is that singleplayer is designed almost purely for the story. Multi is more centered around balancing gameplay for eight or so players to be challenged and adapt to new situations that weren't faced in the main campaign (dueling around a Ganymede, taking down a Hecate, etc.). If we treated the multi missions are pure canon, then we would have proof that the GTVA actually had another Hades--it was the central obstacle in a TvT mission (unless, of course, it was a simulation, in which case, why wouldn't the GTVA simply use a Hecate or Orion instead of a ship that was highly-classified and controversial?).

Point is we don't tend to treat the multiplayer missions as canon simply because they don't seem entirely focused on advancing the main storyline, but only generating isolated battles or circumstances to allow some believability but give the players something new to go up against.

[Colonol Dekker]

Operation Templar and RI are pretty canon in my eyes.
I can understand both your POV's damn my objective outlook

[CP5670]

Yes, we see, but the fact is that singleplayer is designed almost purely for the story. Multi is more centered around balancing gameplay for eight or so players to be challenged and adapt to new situations that weren't faced in the main campaign (dueling around a Ganymede, taking down a Hecate, etc.). If we treated the multi missions are pure canon, then we would have proof that the GTVA actually had another Hades--it was the central obstacle in a TvT mission (unless, of course, it was a simulation, in which case, why wouldn't the GTVA simply use a Hecate or Orion instead of a ship that was highly-classified and controversial?).

Point is we don't tend to treat the multiplayer missions as canon simply because they don't seem entirely focused on advancing the main storyline, but only generating isolated battles or circumstances to allow some believability but give the players something new to go up against.

As I said before, all that applies to the singleplayer missions too. Many of them sacrifice story realism for fun gameplay (as they should). FS2 is a game after all, not a movie or something. The TvT missions are almost certainly supposed to be simulations, similar to the Gauntlets and Dogfights that are actually labeled as such, considering that they often tell you to retry it if you lose. I don't see any evidence at all of the story taking a backseat to gameplay in the co-op missions though, any more than the campaign missions at least.

I have to agree with AlphaOne there. It's a little strange that a few of the same people religiously defending the Sobek 6000 number are now mumbling something about "semi-canon" here.

The way I see it, anything made by Volition carries the official weight except where there is an explicit inconsistency (like whether or not the Mentu has anti-capital beams), but that doesn't stop me from changing things around as I please (within reason) in my own missions, especially gameplay-related factors like the weapon balance and ship stats.

[Colonol Dekker]

Right i think we can all agree on the fact that Canon = Made by so any made stuff must be canon except where it conflicts with itself.

So lets all forget our worries with a nice bowl of strawberry ice-cream

[Prophet]

Operation Templar and other background stories for the MP missions I consider to be canon. Because I have no reason not not. I also do not totally dismiss the idea of NTF having Hecates. It is possible that they had. But I will not zealously belive so because of some multiplayer mission. Because IMHO multiplayer mission were not created to tell a story, they were created to entertain, and to offer variable battlesituations against other human players. Is that not right? Thus balance and pure old fashined fun came first, and if story elements suffered because of that... I don't think cared. When they wanted to involve an NTF destroyer, they selected a Hecated probably because player has owned so many Orions during the single player campaing. Isn't that a logical assumption?

Yes, the single player is full of little inconsistencies. That's why I trust multiplayer even less. And I cetainly don't trust easily on what kind of ship was where and what happened to it because clearly wanted to have lot's of explosions. And for that purpose they had an unlimited amount of ships.

I am willing to belive the NTF had Hecates if you point out at least two places where they are mentioned. If those Hacates really are so damn important.


And a toally another matter:

AlphaOne, will you ****ing calm down! There is no reason for you to start whinnig like an immature ***** everytime someone disagrees with you. By pissing yourself off you always get others agitated too. Plus we have to decipher your posts with an enigma machine every time you are angry and don't bother to check your spelling.

[aldo_14]

Oki now here is where i go balistic ! You guis treat every twich and inonsitenci in the FS singleplayer as canon that is not to be disputed and yet when something doesnt agree with you or you think it highly unlikely you make it se-canon or whatever. If its V made or aproved then its cannon i dont care what theyr goal was. Aldo and several other members of the forum beat that into mi head . Then if you can say that things like these should be semi-canon or something like that then i can say the same for the Sobek numbers motivating that Volition maibe just wanted to add some more drama to the story and a sence of complete failure and remorse over the failed mission.

See where i'm gooing?

Yes.

Obviously, we're not beating hard enough.

[Colonol Dekker]

V cruel Aldo, V funny but V cruel

[CP5670]

multiplayer mission were not created to tell a story, they were created to entertain, and to offer variable battlesituations against other human players. Is that not right? Thus balance and pure old fashined fun came first, and if story elements suffered because of that... I don't think cared.

Just like the singleplayer campaign. When you get down to it, FS2 is primarily a game, not a story. Anyway I find that things like Rebel Blockade or Operation Templar are easily on the same level as the best singleplayer campaign missions, purely in terms of the story.

I think it's fine that people want to disregard some canon stuff - I do it all the time - but it's stupid to then defend other aspects of canon material like the 6000 so virulently in the other thread, with the only justification being that Volition says so and Volition's word is god's word. (this is not really directed at you, more at some of the other posters)

[Prophet]

Just like the singleplayer campaign. When you get down to it, FS2 is primarily a game, not a story.

"primarily a game, not a story"... Yes, I do have to agree on that. Though someone might not.
What ever, semantics...

[Mobius]

The Hecate class of destroyers is replacing the Orion as the flagship of Terran battle groups,says the tech.
Sirius,Polaris and Regulus are important systems for Old civilizations and for modern research.This importance is proportional to the FS2's one.
It's almost impossible that no Hecate was present in these systems.Impossible.
If the NTF had Hecates,they must be taken down before Alpha 1 entered the conflict...
In a 18 months period...
Did the NTF pay attention on firepower? Orions are known to have a magnificent firepower against warships...
is this "canon"?
Vasudans Hatshepsut ar far better than Typhon,tech says that retrofitting Typhons with beams led to system failure.Hatshepsut destroyers are the mainstay of the Vasudan fleet.According to this the Vasudans must have a number of Hatshepsut greater than the Typhons' one,or almost equal.We see two Hecates in the single campaign but a much higher number of Orions,in the Terran fleet happened something different.
And finally:the player starts his training in Vega while he is waiting for the Aquitaine to arrive,so it must be a newly build warship,and also the best known of its class.The NTF never had access to modern techs,such as the Pegasus or the Perseus.According to this,the NTF has captured an incomplete Hecate when the rebellion started and then finished the construction,or it never had one.

[TrashMan]

Oki now here is where i go balistic ! You guis treat every twich and inonsitenci in the FS singleplayer as canon that is not to be disputed and yet when something doesnt agree with you or you think it highly unlikely you make it se-canon or whatever. If its V made or aproved then its cannon i dont care what theyr goal was. Aldo and several other members of the forum beat that into mi head . Then if you can say that things like these should be semi-canon or something like that then i can say the same for the Sobek numbers motivating that Volition maibe just wanted to add some more drama to the story and a sence of complete failure and remorse over the failed mission.

See where i'm gooing?

He's right you know.... When the point suits you that all that comes out of your mouths is "[V] said so! Canon it must be! Ramen!".. and when it doesn't suit your tastes that you start with the "maby it was a mistake" Or "[V] didn't pay attention"..

Hell, I'm copying this thread to show it down the throat of anyone who acuses me of trying to twist FS canon to his whim!

[Mars]

Just like the singleplayer campaign. When you get down to it, FS2 is primarily a game, not a story. Anyway I find that things like Rebel Blockade or Operation Templar are easily on the same level as the best singleplayer campaign missions, purely in terms of the story.

I think it's fine that people want to disregard some canon stuff - I do it all the time - but it's stupid to then defend other aspects of canon material like the 6000 so virulently in the other thread, with the only justification being that Volition says so and Volition's word is god's word. (this is not really directed at you, more at some of the other posters)

The only reason I objected to that is because as far as I could tell, the only justification on the other side was "I don't like that number, it should be 3!" Plus I was board, and debates are fun when you board.

[NGTM-1R]

The Hecate class of destroyers is replacing the Orion as the flagship of Terran battle groups,says the tech.
Sirius,Polaris and Regulus are important systems for Old civilizations and for modern research.This importance is proportional to the FS2's one.

The basic problem is, though, that they may not (probably didn't in fact) have the capablity to really keep their newer ships in service. A few major actions and they would have run out of Hecate parts and start having to jury-rig. Big ships, being more complex then little ones, take poorly to that kind of thing; if the NTF still had any Hecates in service by month 18 when FS2 starts, at best they would be one step ahead of being cannibalized for parts, and their performance badly degraded.