Author Topic: Capella story question  (Read 10158 times)

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Re: Capella story question
He said in FS1, not FS2; but I can't remember that either.....


Also, the subspace tracker would still be nice in figuring where ships are jumping to, even if your not planning on subspace interception.
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Offline Charismatic

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Re: Capella story question
How does one go about tracking a ship through subspace. What side is the tracker? Id figure it would be installed on normal sensors of ships in FS2 tho. But how did they track ships through subspace anyways?

If the shivans came from a near system or planet, previously unexplored, but close to the GTVA territory, ya know, the 80+ Sathi, why the hell would they want to 'open a node to another universe' when like, near all, ro a large portion of them are already in the same universe\system as the GTVA? Would seem senceless..
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Re: Capella story question
Dude, it's Ancient tech. You'd do just as well asking just how the hell the Knossos works.
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Offline S-99

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Re: Capella story question
Idk why people are dismissing the fighting within a node. It's happened at the last mission of fs1, even when you jump several minutes after the lucifer. Not to mention the thing in fs1 where it said that the pvn and gta had some subspace fights.
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Offline Mehrpack

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Re: Capella story question
He said in FS1, not FS2; but I can't remember that either.....


Also, the subspace tracker would still be nice in figuring where ships are jumping to, even if your not planning on subspace interception.

hi,
hups hit the wrong key, i would writing FS1 but instead get the 2 and doesnt noticed it *grrrr*

ähm no, that make not scene if the tracker only is to see where ships jumping to a point, the subspace a streets between the stars.

and i think its pretty clear to see in the story of FS1 that without the tracker and the informations over the shield of the lucifer the GTA/PVN hadnt any chance to destroy the lucifer.
the tracker had allow the GTA fighters to fellow the Lucifer in the Subspace and attack it there.

theory for subspace tracking: maybe you need to jump in the subspace maybe a specific subatomar vibration, which allow you to enter the sub dimension of the subspace.
the tracker can detect the frequency of the vibration and you can set your own vibrationfrequency on this frequency too.
so you can enter the same sub dimension.
and maybe so can you differentiate your own forces and the enemy forces.

what do you think?

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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Capella story question
I think that only larger ships have the ability to track others ships on subspace, its show that only command tracks ships (as far as I can remember) but a destroyer, corvette and, of course, AWACS class ships must have sensorial equipment to be able to do that, cruisers, due to size, wouldnt have something that advanced. But this technology was only discovered in the end of the great war, so its possible that its not that advanced, I mean, to an incredible level were you can say where a ship is going as soon as it jumps out. Also if there is the ability to track, there must be the ability to block the tracking, an AWACS ship should be able to do this but is a guess.


For the fight within a node, for the sake of preserving the node so it can remain stable for any kind of trafic (civillian and military), both the PVN, GTA and later the GTVA wouldnt employ ships to fight within an node unless it was something desperate like the Lucifer, but on the Lucifer's case, with the knowledge that they had then the GTA wouldnt have know that its destruction would've sealed the node and as soon as they saw what the destruction of the Lucifer did they must have clearly realised what something happens when you blow things in a node, perhaps this was one the reasons as to why the Meson bomb was developed.

As for how ships move in subspace, I have no idea. :P

 

Offline Charismatic

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Re: Capella story question
The last part of what Mehrpack last said is actually a good idea. Id have to agree with it as well.

The 'ability to block' also is a good idea, but i think GTVA has not reached that technology yet. As they did not spread the tech, if they had it, to all their ships yet, or annoucnce it for the matter.

Sarafan, no there was fights in subspace. The Lucifer is an example of why. Lucifer had 5 ****ing reacters FFS, That energy when exploded cauzed the node to collapse. Regular ships explodeing in a node dont destroy it. Thats why they pack the Neriod with MESON BOMBS in order to collapse it.

And the meson bomb theory you suggested is interesting as well. It may have been a reason for its developement, as its not that much of a tactical weapon. Dont use em in battle do we? :D
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Re: Capella story question
As for how ships move in subspace, I have no idea. :P

If you accept the "layered space" theory, then moving in subspace should be no different than moving in normal space. As to why it's so much faster, subspace is more compressed than normal space, so 1 kilometer traveled in subspace equals millions traveled in normal space.
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Capella story question
I know there already were fights in subspace but due to the damage that it can cause to the nodes its not done anymore. :)

 

Offline S-99

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Re: Capella story question
I bet for the gtva learning about the tracking technology, was probably no more than fine tuning and modifying they're sensors to be able to track ships in subspace. They just learned how to do it from the ancients archive. Most likely it was not an actual device to be able track ships in subspace. Why make a technology that your radar and sensors already do, just fine tune and modify them to do something else like gain lock on shivan ships, or tracking ships through a node. I bet tracking a ship through a node would requires quantum mechanics. And if ships do need to have the same vibration to enter a node and stay in formation within a node, then the pvn and gta already had that technology called a jump drive. Oh i need to change my jump drive vibration to match his, ok, i'll tell the computer to change it for me if it hasn't done it automatically.
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Offline Mehrpack

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Re: Capella story question
[...]
Sarafan, no there was fights in subspace. The Lucifer is an example of why. Lucifer had 5 ****ing reacters FFS, That energy when exploded cauzed the node to collapse. Regular ships explodeing in a node dont destroy it. Thats why they pack the Neriod with MESON BOMBS in order to collapse it.
[...]

hi,
yes maybe, but maybe they node need time to countervail the energy they set free a exploding ship.
if to many ships explode in a short time in a node, maybe the node will go instable too.

i think its not really the question: one great explosion or many little explosion.
i think its more the energy they set free the explosion, which destabilize a node.
and maybe older nodes need more energy to go unstable as young nodes.

I bet for the gtva learning about the tracking technology, was probably no more than fine tuning and modifying they're sensors to be able to track ships in subspace. They just learned how to do it from the ancients archive. Most likely it was not an actual device to be able track ships in subspace. Why make a technology that your radar and sensors already do, just fine tune and modify them to do something else like gain lock on shivan ships, or tracking ships through a node. I bet tracking a ship through a node would requires quantum mechanics. And if ships do need to have the same vibration to enter a node and stay in formation within a node, then the pvn and gta already had that technology called a jump drive. Oh i need to change my jump drive vibration to match his, ok, i'll tell the computer to change it for me if it hasn't done it automatically.

its hard to say, its only fine tuning or more.
but i think too its was the last part of the puzzle to find ships in subspace, for the GTA/PVN.
because its in a war a great adavance if you can detect enemy ships they approaching your position and attack you and they doesnt need much time to implant the technologie in the fighters/warships.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Capella story question
Without the tracking technology you couldn't fight in subspace, unless your ship was physically attached to that of your opponent. Which would be odd, to say the least.

General consensus on the tracking technology is that it is only useable by larger craft, and it can only track objects that the larger craft observed entering subspace; if a ship has already entered subspace and there was no craft with tracking technology around to observe it do so, it cannot be tracked.
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Offline S-99

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Re: Capella story question
I would bet that smaller ships like fighters can't track ships into subspace. Just because smaller ships can't do it, doesn't mean that the bigger ships need to have a whole new device on board to be able to do it. You don't quite need to have a new piece of technology to track ships through subspace. To track things through subspace first formed as an idea, and then became an appliable method. It could be that only the bigger ships can track ships through subspace because they have bigger and much more powerful sensor arrays along with knowledge of the ancients to learn how to track things through subspace by modifying them.
I don't see how tracking technology is necessary for following ships in subspace. The subspace tracking technology was only necessary for being able to track ships in subspace from outside of subspace. Remember in the end of fs1, they learned two things, which was how to track ships through subspace, and that the lucifer's shielding didn't work in subspace. Nothing even close to tracking technology is necessary for physically following a ship into subspace.
And nightmare, what a horrible consensus technology you described as necessary for subspace tracking. What's the difference between a larger vessel witnessing a ship going into subspace versus not witnessing it going into subspace.
FighterPilot: sir a ship has jumped out using the knossos...track that ****er.
Command: ok well, since we, the bigger ship didn't witness it, we can't use our heavily advanced technology to track it.
FighterPilot: i witnessed it, it's going to the ****ing nebula beyond the gamma-draconis knossos here
Command: well kudos for you
A bigger ship needing to watch a ship jump out to be able to track is next to bull**** nightmare :lol:
Something rings of being able to use you're own head to figure out where a ship is going versus bogus technology. Why can't subspace tracking be like normal radar tracking? Except that it'd probably make use of quantum mechanics being needed to track a ship outside of normal space(effectively tracking a ship outside of space time and pretty much in a different dimension of space).
You know in fs1, when the taranis was captured, the only shivans present to witness that was the disabled and downed comm. of the taranis. That **** got tracked through subspace by the shivans without witnessing it no problem.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 07:34:57 pm by S-99 »
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

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Offline Charismatic

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Re: Capella story question
Shivans must have some advanced warning technology.

Man, fighters cant track in subspace. And, no we cant track ships that are on their way to our position. You know in near every mission, shivans come to attack us, and we dont want them too. The nearest warning is 'shivans may mostlikely be there' and 'in comeing jump signatiure, hostile configuration'. If we knew b4 every attack it would have been a easy victory IMHO. You know how many suprize attacks we have had agienst our ass?
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Capella story question
Yes, we can track them, first mission, what command says:

We are now tracking the vessel through subspace. We have vectored its course to your immediate vicinity.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Capella story question
We are now tracking the vessel through subspace. We have vectored its course to your immediate vicinity.

It just ran a blockade. So it was observed entering.


I don't see how tracking technology is necessary for following ships in subspace. The subspace tracking technology was only necessary for being able to track ships in subspace from outside of subspace. Remember in the end of fs1, they learned two things, which was how to track ships through subspace, and that the lucifer's shielding didn't work in subspace. Nothing even close to tracking technology is necessary for physically following a ship into subspace.
And nightmare, what a horrible consensus technology you described as necessary for subspace tracking. What's the difference between a larger vessel witnessing a ship going into subspace versus not witnessing it going into subspace.
FighterPilot: sir a ship has jumped out using the knossos...track that ****er.
Command: ok well, since we, the bigger ship didn't witness it, we can't use our heavily advanced technology to track it.
FighterPilot: i witnessed it, it's going to the ****ing nebula beyond the gamma-draconis knossos here
Command: well kudos for you
A bigger ship needing to watch a ship jump out to be able to track is next to bull**** nightmare :lol:
Something rings of being able to use you're own head to figure out where a ship is going versus bogus technology. Why can't subspace tracking be like normal radar tracking? Except that it'd probably make use of quantum mechanics being needed to track a ship outside of normal space(effectively tracking a ship outside of space time and pretty much in a different dimension of space).
You know in fs1, when the taranis was captured, the only shivans present to witness that was the disabled and downed comm. of the taranis. That **** got tracked through subspace by the shivans without witnessing it no problem.


Here's the breakdown. Every single time you have been warned there is an inbound enemy vessel it has just run a blockade and/or was engaged with GTVA forces at the other end of its jump; at all other times they arrived unannounced. (Ships in the nebula did not jump in under most circumstances, but instead used no-warp to create an impression of just entering sensor range; hence the AWACs forewarning is not valid.) We've never been forewarned of an enemy ship's arrival that wasn't watched entering subspace by other GTVA ships. This actually makes a good deal of sense.

Subspace is n-dimensional. We don't know what "n" is, but it's safe to say it's pretty large. (Otherwise you could simply dispatch multiple wings to check each and then send in the strikefore once you know the right one, in Good Luck, thus invalidating the tracking technology.) A ship that jumps at the same place as a previous one will not end up on the same subspatial dimension as the one that jumped before it (otherwise the tracking technology is again rendered moot); so far as we know there is no way to effectively "follow" another ship into subspace without the tracking technology (or possibly their having communicated their drive settings to you). You can enter after them from the same place, exit after them at the same place, but you won't be in the same place in subspace as they are. This randomization effect means one of two things: either we're screwing with things we don't really understand and can't control, or it's an intentional tactic. If we could not control it somehow then Good Luck is an impossiblity; hence it must be intentional.

It's furthermore dimensional; this implies very large barriers, ones impermeable to sensor technology. Our understanding of the subject is limited, but it may well be that once in subspace it's not truly possible to "change course"; no matter which direction you go in subspace you're going to end up at the end of your plotted jump. Once in subspace you are gone. There is no sign of you in normal space. You have to be seen entering your jump corridor; the tracking technology probably has more to do with analyzing the entry signature, vector, and speed, then actually physically tracking the ship.
 
Shivans subspatial tech > GTVA subspatial tech. That's a given. So, faulty analogy.
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Offline S-99

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Re: Capella story question
Well, how is that actual subspace tracking technology? The ship needs to be seen leaving the theatre it was already in so that people know that it left, the direction it was going in, and it's speed. The doesn't require even require any special technique to track a ship through subspace. Besides, knowing it's vector and speed does not tell you when the ship will drop out of subspace.
The gtva said they were tracking a ship through subspace, which means they would have had to do some actual tracking through subspace. Otherwise stuff for zods and terrans are like how they were in fs1. You're able to vector a ships course by watching which direction it jumps at and it's speed. But vectoring it to the point in which it arrives to it's destination in normal space requires actual tracking while in subspace. Without tracking, you don't know how long that ship that jumped out intends to spend inside of subspace, you don't know if it'd be making a short jump, or a long jump.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 02:54:22 am by S-99 »
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Capella story question
@no-one in particular.

There cant be that many exits on paralell vectors if you guys think about it.
Also In mission one the Belisarius had to be in system already when it jumped. And if you draw a bead on its heading and in a (arguments sake ballpark figure) 5 light year course of space theres only one planet with refugees and d estroyer, I reckon its a safe bet hes gonna go there....... ;)
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Offline S-99

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Re: Capella story question
That's still not using tracking technology, that's just crunching some math from the speed of the vessel, hunching where it's going, and making a bet. As far as i'm concerned, a vessel doing an in system jump can drop out of subspace whenever it wishes(not based on particular exit points but random exit points), completely different than having to go through a node.  When you make a jump in system it's not confined to going through a node but rather confined to the system.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006, 04:04:59 am by S-99 »
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Capella story question
Ok, well i just had a brain fart, assuming that the GTVA can navigate subspace in the first place, It stands to reason they can detect it [obviously] and if they can detect it whos to say they cant use some sort of installation bound or cap bound *subspace radar* like a toned down awacs (sub on top of Fenithans could house more than comms) to traingulate whilst working in concert with other flotillas ?

additional-  Notice how the centaur/hygeia always jumps in within metres of Alpha one it must need a solid proximity lock after being given battlefield co-ords from command?
well if the tiny little resupply can be that accurate, whos to say the detecton tech doesnt work both ways, scale it up to match larger ships and there you go.
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