[Aardwolf]

Warning: if you haven't played Homesick, this may give hints as to its plot that may upset you in some way:

I just recently finished playing Homesick, and it was fun, but I dislike how the creator used the destruction of a jump node so freely, and also how all of the fighters had inter-system jump drives. Allow me to explain:

In FS1, they only discover how to track ships in subspace at the very end. They also only are able to mount a few ships with inter-system jump drives, and (in the Intel. description of subspace in FS2) they say that doing so is prohibitively expensive (or something like that). Yet in Homesick, all of the fighters in the player's group have these jump drives.

Also, in FS1, it takes the destruction of a Lucifer to destabilize a jump node. I admit, this may have been the first battle in subspace, explaining why no nodes had been destroyed like that before, but it took a Lucifer! Then, in FS2, it took an Orion class Destroyer loaded with Meson Bombs to do it. Yet in Homesick all it takes is a normal destroyer, and it is warned that a cruiser or corvette could have the same effect. What's with that?

Comments?

Does this belong in this board, or some other board?

[Blaise Russel]

Yet in Homesick, all of the fighters in the player's group have these jump drives.

A wizard did it.

Yet in Homesick all it takes is a normal destroyer [to destroy a subspace node], and it is warned that a cruiser or corvette could have the same effect. What's with that?

Wizards again. Pesky wizards.

[Kie99]

If you put a pocket-sized nuclear bomb (Lucifer, Bastion + Meson bombs) in a papier mache tube (node), then set it off, you will destroy the tube, right?  If you put a small piece of explosive material (Cruiser/Corvette) into a papier mache tube, then detonate it the tube will also be destroyed.

Not to mention the fact that the nodes which could have been destroyed were unstable.

[Aardwolf]

Wow. Blaise Russel himself. I wasn't expecting that. Thank you, but your reply is a little too... gaahhhhh! I can't, I just can't accept it! Wizards, in FreeSpace! (I think you're making a Simpsons reference, but I'm not sure)

"What's it breathing?"
"Air?"
"There's no air in space!"
"There's an Air in Space Museum."

[Aardwolf]

What is subspace, anyway? Is it an entire other universe, only smaller? Or is it a network of tubes? Or (this is my theory) is it a bunch of tubes that have no connections to eachother and only link different points in hyperspace (I'm using the term used to denote real space in FRED and FRED2, not the SW term)?

Does a "subspace cataclysm" have to occur at one of the endpoints, or can it be anywhere in subspace? Or does it just have more of an effect the closer to the endpoint it is?

@kietotheworld: But why would they throw away an entire destroyer (or two of them, counting the GTD Nereid) if a corvette or cruiser could have done it? True, the nodes in Homesick were unstable, but that doesn't explain it thoroughly.

[Cobra]

Warning: if you haven't played Homesick, this may give hints as to its plot that may upset you in some way:

I just recently finished playing Homesick, and it was fun, but I dislike how the creator used the destruction of a jump node so freely, and also how all of the fighters had inter-system jump drives. Allow me to explain:

In FS1, they only discover how to track ships in subspace at the very end. They also only are able to mount a few ships with inter-system jump drives, and (in the Intel. description of subspace in FS2) they say that doing so is prohibitively expensive (or something like that). Yet in Homesick, all of the fighters in the player's group have these jump drives.

Also, in FS1, it takes the destruction of a Lucifer to destabilize a jump node. I admit, this may have been the first battle in subspace, explaining why no nodes had been destroyed like that before, but it took a Lucifer! Then, in FS2, it took an Orion class Destroyer loaded with Meson Bombs to do it. Yet in Homesick all it takes is a normal destroyer, and it is warned that a cruiser or corvette could have the same effect. What's with that?

Comments?

Does this belong in this board, or some other board?

You know, I think the correct term for this is "plotholes."

[Blaise Russel]

Not to mention the fact that the nodes which could have been destroyed were unstable.

That's a good excu- dah, explanation.

What is subspace, anyway? Is it an entire other universe, only smaller? Or is it a network of tubes? Or (this is my theory) is it a bunch of tubes that have no connections to eachother and only link different points in hyperspace (I'm using the term used to denote real space in FRED and FRED2, not the SW term)?

It seems to be related in some way to gravity, since subspace appears to pool around stars (and presumably any other objects which exert similar amounts of gravity). The pools appear to be separate, as one cannot make an inter-system jump from just anywhere in a system, only through specially designated nodes which connect two specific systems.

I like to think of it as a series of lakes, which connect to each other through narrow channels.

But why would they throw away an entire destroyer (or two of them, counting the GTD Nereid) if a corvette or cruiser could have done it?

Perhaps they just wanted to be really sure.

Actually, there could be degrees of destabilisation - a cruiser or corvette or 'ordinary' destroyer may destabilise a node so that ships with 'coarse' subspace drives couldn't use them, but 'fine' subspace drives, like the ones the Shivans use, still could. Weak nodes that the Terrans and Vasudans couldn't have used themselves may have been the entry points for Shivans at the beginning of FS1.

[Aardwolf]

You know, I think the correct term for this is "plotholes."

I know, but I wanted to be nice. I'm surprised that I got a response--no... two responses--from Blaise Russel himself. The first one was kind of useless, but once the topic got rolling smoothly, his second response was much... better.

Also, what's excu- dah?

[Flipside]

I suppose the thing about plots is, because we don't have the full plot to Freespace, and most likely never will, fortunately, it's all to easy to fall into the trap of looking for loopholes. I wouldn't be surprised if there are potential 'loopholes' in every plot of every mod out there. I suppose what is important is that you enjoy playing the campaign.

[Blaise Russel]

I know, but I wanted to be nice. I'm surprised that I got a response--no... two responses--from Blaise Russel himself. The first one was kind of useless, but once the topic got rolling smoothly, his second response was much... better.

The thing is, there's not really much to it beyond "it's what the plot required." There's no Grand Theory of Everything behind it all.

Also, what's excu- dah?

An interrupted "excuse." Because it's not. I already knew that the nodes were unstable already, long before kie suggested it, and I wasn't just latching onto it as a handy excuse to save my skin, nuh uh.

[Aardwolf]

Oh, I get it.

[karajorma]

@kietotheworld: But why would they throw away an entire destroyer (or two of them, counting the GTD Nereid) if a corvette or cruiser could have done it? True, the nodes in Homesick were unstable, but that doesn't explain it thoroughly.

Take a close look at the destroyer that they used and you'll have part of the answer.

When the explosion of the Lucifer collapsed the jump node to the Sol system and severed all contact with Earth, Command transferred the Bastion to the 4th Fleet in Vega. Since then we've called Vega our home. Now Command has de-commissioned the Bastion and reassigned its squadrons to the newer Hecate destroyers. We'll be joining the GTD Aquitaine, flagship of the 3rd Fleet, Capella.

So basically command had no real use for the Bastion besides spare parts/scrap metal anyway. Why throw away a perfectly usable cruiser or a brand new corvette when they have everything they need in a package they were planning to throw away anyway.

The second reason (which applies to the Bastion but not the Nereid) is that unlike a cruiser or corvette the armour on the Bastion was much thicker than that of a cruiser or covette. When you play Clash of the Titans II you can see how much punishment the Bastion actually ends up taking. Getting a corvette or cruiser through all that would have been much harder.

[Kie99]

@kietotheworld: But why would they throw away an entire destroyer (or two of them, counting the GTD Nereid) if a corvette or cruiser could have done it? True, the nodes in Homesick were unstable, but that doesn't explain it thoroughly.

They didn't know yet, all they'd seen was the Lucifer's detonation which has taken out a node.  They wouldn't risk sending in a cruiser because they simply don't know if it would work or not, all they could have done was try to make an explosion of a similar magnitude to the Lucifer's.

[Aardwolf]

I still would rather believe that it actually takes an explosion of that magnitude to destroy a stable jump node.

[karajorma]

Fair enough for your campaigns but Blaise can set his campaigns up with a different level of magnitude required and still not be wrong

[Harbinger of DOOM]

What is subspace, anyway? Is it an entire other universe, only smaller? Or is it a network of tubes? Or (this is my theory) is it a bunch of tubes that have no connections to eachother and only link different points in hyperspace (I'm using the term used to denote real space in FRED and FRED2, not the SW term)?

Does a "subspace cataclysm" have to occur at one of the endpoints, or can it be anywhere in subspace? Or does it just have more of an effect the closer to the endpoint it is?

Imagine that the universe it a long straw, and that you are an ant at one end.
The distance to the other end is immense, but if you bend the straw until the ends touch, the distance is very close.
Thats what subspace does, it bends space so that you can get from... one side of the universe to the other, very fast.
God, I love Stargate.

[S-99]

I don't know if subspace can be applied to wormhole theory. A wormhole actually connects two parts of the universe together. Subspace is just something ships use to gain ftl velocity. But subspace becomes more than just being about ftl velocity when it comes nodes. Nodes do actually connect two parts of the universe together, but an in-system jump i would say doesn't. An in-system jump is more like going to warp in star trek with chosen coordinates to drop out of subspace at or drop out of subspace when you wish, but a node when you enter one you're just along for the ride until you reach the end of the tube. There's no early drop out or turning back when you enter a node, you go into a node and you're from one system to another simple as that.
So i guess subspace can be applied to wormholes when it comes to nodes