[Mars]

Those beams don't look right to me at all - far too dull. If you have white cores then they should be at maximum brightness. The idea of the originals, to me, is that the light from the core of the beam is so bright that the eye (or cockpit display) can only see it as blindingly white. The falloff corona looks red or green or whatever because the energy level isn't as high on the outer edges of the beam and so doesn't blind you.

I have to agree... these beams, if you look at the individual images, look better than the oringinals, but in-game these beams just don't look as good... I am no effects artist, so I can't say why, but hopefully it's something fairly easily fixed.

[Herra Tohtori]

Those beams don't look right to me at all - far too dull. If you have white cores then they should be at maximum brightness. The idea of the originals, to me, is that the light from the core of the beam is so bright that the eye (or cockpit display) can only see it as blindingly white. The falloff corona looks red or green or whatever because the energy level isn't as high on the outer edges of the beam and so doesn't blind you.

...Own comments:

-the shivan-beam texture seems to suffer from lack of brightness in-game.

-the tile factors still need to be adjusted - currently they are a bit too small, I reckon.

-I suppose the violet appearance of that AAA beam is mostly because of the red haze in the screen.

-Whenever a beam equipped with these textures hits something, the texture stops too abruptly and destroys the illusion of a round bar of energy, if you look too carefully.

I agree, the core brightness problem was and is most prominant in the Shivan Beam, but it was to some extent a problem to other beams as well.

To me it looks like for some reason, there would still be transparency even in the middle of the beam texture's white part, which is an unwanted effect, as it makes the beam look far too dim in some situations. Currently it's fixed with some duct tape as a temporary solution (I roughly dubbed a non-transparent white bulk behind the beam so that the dark space can't make the actual texture more dim), but it still needs some work, which I unfortunately don't quite have right now. I'll have some time to play with this perhaps on Monday...

I'm planning to also match the beam edge colours to existing beam-flash animations.

Other thing needing work to be done to it BADLY is the effect which happens when the beam hits something. One possibility would be to   expand the hit area's explosion animation, which would hopefully cover the exact spot where the beam hits...

As I said, it needs work to be done with it. I might end up doing two sets of animation frames per picture, even if it doubles the memory used and the amount of files to be downloaded, but it might work better.

Thanks for critique anyway, even though I had already figured those things mostly out It's good that people agree with my own perceptions of beams.

Oh, and the reason why I wouldn't want the center of the beam be completely white is as follows:

I think the pilots' eyes would be burned into their holes if there wasn't some kind of fastly adaptive filter in the cockpit glass/helmet visor. This filter practically has to dim the beam to viewable brightness levels, much the same way a welder's visor makes it possible to look at sun.

Well, there are brightness differences in the surface of the Sun. We call them sun spots, as they appear dark on the surface when we view them through a telescope with a filter in it.

However, they are not actually much dimmer than the other areas of surface. The reason why we see them dimmer is that eye is an adaptive optic instrument, it adapts to existing brightness differences and applies a "contrast filter", if you like, to separate the small differences and magnify them. This operation takes place in the back of the brains, in the visual cortex.

I believe much the same thing would happen with FS beams. However bright they are, there's bound to be some brightness differences even in the core, and human visual cortex makes them visible much like sun spots.


Regardless, the white areas should actually be white, not just some bright degree of gray but instead as white as the monitor can produce.

[S-99]

Hey yeah, i was messing around with fs2 so far with the mediavps, and to say the least, the only cool stuff from dab's beams would the more sane version, and only in that the most powerful beams look sweet, the beam flares are awesome, and the gtva AAA beams are perfecto. However, when it comes to more minor beams and shivan AAA beams, they look like string cheese when swiping across a hull. I've never seen that affect so bad before, but now i see why someone is at work and producing new beams at a pretty fast rate i might add.
Can't wait to see these get finished, they're much better than what was started with the looked like a star trek phaser beams in the beginning.
Anyway, something that occured to me that you could do which no one else has done before from what i've seen(and would definitely fix the effect when a beam hits something).

Case and point right here, see where the lysander and actium are swiping their beams across the hull of a nebula camoflaged rakshasa. That's a pretty awesome affect with the superheated trailing explosion thingy. You know how when you have a blow torch and hold it up to metal(primitive beam cannon), when the flame comes in contact with the metal, it not only heats up, in this case it's about what the flame does...it spreads itself across the surface of the metal.
Like this

 I was thinking that beams could use a similar upgrade especially since they are plasma based in fiction. Among the superheated swiping explosions across a hull, you should create a good beam plasma hit spread affect like the blow torch here (and of course have it with the existing trailing explosions). Because right now with this screenshot i'm showing here, there's really awesome beam warm up and firing flares and glows, then after a beam hits a capship hull well there's only the trailing explosions. Anyway, your beams really are starting out to look like they'd be an awesome alternative to dab's beams. But definitely look into that blowtorch spreading out example i showed you, that'd be an awesome hit affect, and something the beams have been waiting for a long time, and a great way to solve your beam hit affect(i take it your also tackling the making the beams not look flat thing).

[taylor]

-Whenever a beam equipped with these textures hits something, the texture stops too abruptly and destroys the illusion of a round bar of energy, if you look too carefully.

It's because you are using the new alpha blending mode (with real alpha), but since beams aren't sorted properly yet they don't always blend with the rest of the textures/effects.  You probably need to switch to the old alpha blend mode (black == transparent) and that should solve the blending issue, and perhaps your Shivan beam brightness problem too.

Switching to the old alpha blend mode in Gimp is easy: make sure that black is your background color (in main toolbox window), then just go to "Image->Flatten Image", which will get rid of the alpha layer and replace it with a black background.  Save the file, and your done.

[Herra Tohtori]

Okay, I will try that.

*realizes he has to copy all image files to backup location, go through all the 33+3 image files, copy them into black background file, Flatten Image, save as new image*

Btw...how does the game engine know which alpha blending to use? Does it read some value in the file, which tells it which blending system to use?

However, the "abrupt ending" issue sometimes also happens so that the middle of the beam somthing gets in the way of it, say, a Sathanas' claw. The beam stops at the distance of the hitting point, and then it sees like it ends up in empty space. So that there is the rectangular edge of the texture visible against empty space, if you get my meaning. So, a bigger hit effect (at minimum the width of the beam) would be very very useful to conceal this glitch.

That hit effect S-99 posted looks ace. Is it something publicly available? If it is, where do I get it?

[taylor]

*realizes he has to copy all image files to backup location, go through all the 33+3 image files, copy them into black background file, Flatten Image, save as new image*

You don't have to copy them to a black background, just make sure that your background color is black, via the color selector in the main tool window.  The default is black on white, so just hit the little arrow there to swap them and that's it.  Then you just have to flatten the image and Gimp will do the rest of the work for you.

So, just open all of the images that you wish to change, then swap the foreground/background color.  Then for each image just do: "Flatten Image", Ctrl-S (to save), Ctrl-W (to close).  It takes all of 2 seconds.

Btw...how does the game engine know which alpha blending to use? Does it read some value in the file, which tells it which blending system to use?

If the image is 32-bit then it has an alpha channel, so it uses the new alpha blend mode.  If it's 24-bit it has no alpha channel, so it uses the old alpha blend mode.  If you don't use alpha you can make the files DXT1c too, which uses a lot less memory.

However, the "abrupt ending" issue sometimes also happens so that the middle of the beam somthing gets in the way of it, say, a Sathanas' claw. The beam stops at the distance of the hitting point, and then it sees like it ends up in empty space. So that there is the rectangular edge of the texture visible against empty space, if you get my meaning. So, a bigger hit effect (at minimum the width of the beam) would be very very useful to conceal this glitch.

The hit effect/explosion is there to cover up the edge, but since the effects aren't sorted the beam can't blend in with the explosion so it can show in front of it instead of being covered by it.  That's why you want to use the old alpha blend mode, it should hide the edge properly.

[Herra Tohtori]

...Excactly where in GIMP is this "Flatten"? All I can found is "Semi-Flatten", which does not work as wanted. Using "Semi-Flatten" gives me this:



...behold, now it has the dreaded Black Edges (TM) andit still doesn't blend into the explosion. 


Oh, and to complicate things bit more my GIMP is Finnish as is my computer, so the tools might have different names.

On "Taso -> Läpinäkyvyys" [Layer -> Transparency] there are 8 entries:

-Lisää alfakanaca [Add Alpha Channel]  -  This option is unselectable.

-Kynnysarvo: [Threshold:] - I think this option enables to set colours under certain value to be transparent...

-Semi-Flatten [Semi-Flatten] - This gives the above (unwanted) results, and I guess this is not the Flatten we're talking about...

-Väri -> Alfa... [Colour -> Alpha] - Lets you choose a colour to be alpha channel.

The rest four are definitely not what are needed here, so I won't list them here.


My GIMP is version 2.2.10... where in the menus do I find this "Flatten"?

Another option is that I'm doing something horribly wrong. Either way, I don't think that's a wanted effect in that picture...

[taylor]

Semi-Flatten doesn't discard the alpha layer, which is what you have to do to get rid of the black edges.  "Flatten Image" is in the "Image" menu, directly under "Merge Visible Layers...".

[S-99]

That beam needs to be like a lot brighter, but that's like obviously in the process from last page.
I don't have any hit effects. Besides blowtorch for example hit affect hit here
It was like imagine the blow torch as a beam, and look how the blow torch spreads out on the surface of the metal.
The beams need some type of hit effect. All beams since retail up to dab's, don't have a single hit affect except for the trailing explosion stuff. The few things i know about making such an effect. The spread out effect obviously wouldn't have to be 3d. A 2d spread out like affect always being at the end of the beam if it hits something. And especially if it's a slasher, then it just go along the hull of a ship with the beam.

[Herra Tohtori]

Okay, I got it.

It was very confusingly named in Finnish translation of GIMP... it was "Yhdistä kuva", which is basically like "Merge image", so I didn't consider it to be "Flatten" in English...


Anyway, the problem with low brightness was still there when I used the animation as only texture... I fixored this again by duct-tape solution, as I simply put a separate, non-transparent white bar under the animation. Unfortunately, this bar seems to destroy some of the details that should be on top of the center bar.

As I earier explained, I think it shouldn't be completely white, it should rather have some less brighter detail onto it... but we're definitely closing solutions here.

Also, the animation detail is not visible enough in-game; I may yet have to do something to it, and certainly I'll stll experiment to find good-looking table vallues for flicker values for the beams.

Anyway, here's some screens of what the beams look now after taylor kindly told where to find that pesky Flatten button... 

Here's how it looks right now, with current settings:



As I said, earlier it had more detail. But I'd still call it progress. It looks better now.


What I think is the biggest problem is that the animation frames are completely randomized work and they are played at quite a fast rate, so the "animation" looks more like "vibration"... It's a bit too fast; it creates fabulous screenshots but alas, in-game it's less apparent.

Perhaps I should make the animations from scratch and this time make them actually contain some fading, strengthening and mocing parts... Protuberances and flares on Sun might give good inspiration. Unfortunately that'll take some time. Oh well.

I will post these beams as a new version perhaps tomorrow, now I must get some sleep, I'm getting nauseous at staring in the screen...

...no, I haven't been making beams, I've been coding with Java, some quite annoying homework of a programming course. I had to get some missions done before today, and indeed managed to do it, but it takes its toll...

To adapt Nietsche:

If you stare too long into the Screen, the Screen stares back at you."

[S-99]

That beam is awesome. I need to get the gimp myself, i did pass a course in adobe photoshop. I'll see if i can make some type spread out 2d thing.

[neoterran]

version 2.0 time ? 

[S-99]

Yeah, i got the gimp port 2.0 for windows. I know how to use the program, but honest to god, a hit affect for a plasma beam would look better as an animation.

[Herra Tohtori]

Okay, I've got something for you all to think about and post your opinion about the matter before I release next version - or I might end up releasing two tables that make a difference...

I can easily make the beam very very bright, as in the last screenshots. But the problem is, that most of the detail - except ultimate edges - is gone if I do that.

On the other hand, I can make the beam more detailed. In this case, however, when there are great distances involved - like in High Noon - the beams gradually became more transparent and appear weaker.

I first thought that it was the texture being too dim, because I only looked at the hit point of the beam, that being more of a concern in that phase. Then I took a look at the starting point of the same beams - and near the beam cannons the beam was much brighter!


So. I want your opinions of this matter. We all know that the beams do weaken on distance. So perhaps this thing with getting "more transparent" is not as bad a thing as it might sound like? In cases like High Noon it's probably most apparent, because the distance sare like 10 clicks or something like that. In more sane distances the beams probably don't fade out as much as in that mission. After all, it's just natural that the beams are weaker at greater distances.

Or, it can be kept as it was in the last screenies; that way it will stay bright all the way to the target.

Or I could come up with some kind of a compromise between these two. So that at the beginning the beam is very bright - save for the ultimate edges - and the pure white area gradually gets thinner. It might be possible to get this option, though it would be the most complex of these three options.

Anyway. I'll experiment with these options today and post some screenshots later, but you need to already think about these options. After deciding which of these three options works the best, I'll release version 2.0... I'll jump over the remaining 1.x versions because the jump from proper alpha blending to old alpha blending is quite massive, and in overall the beams work much better now.

[Herra Tohtori]

And here come screenshots.

Basically, what I think is going on is that at the distances involved in High Noon, the beams start to fade out a bit too early.

All beams do fade out, but usually the distances in the missions are small enought that the fading is not too apparent. I'd like to know if there is a way to alter the "fade factor" of the high-range beams, so that they don't look too transparent at the point when they hit? Because I think that's the main problem right now. Otherwise the beams work great, and the only problem is that the textures fade a bit too quickly for the beams used in, say, High Noon to look good.

It's easy to make the beams brighter. Much brighter... the trouble is rather that if I do that, they lose too much of their detail and the center core becomes too visible. And, of course, lower-range beams look just fine.

Extreme range beams used in High Noon look a bit strange, however. I think the pictures tell better what I'm talking about. These are how the beams look like in current setup:






But lower range weapons, such as Vasudan beam, look just fine:



So, I'd like to know if it's possible to adjust long-range beam fading to little less on part of the longest range beams in the game. Specifically at least, BFRed, BFGreen, and LRBGreen need to be adjusted a bit.

[S-99]

That is odd as hell. I'd go for the brighter ones if you don't find out how to fix that transparent thing anytime.

[neoterran]

so this died huh ? A shame..

[Herra Tohtori]

No, it hasn't died.

My school began, and last time I had some free time I wanted to learn modeling, so I did so.

I just don't really feel tempted to put together more half-assed beta releases. You can download the latest one and play around with table values anytime you want. I'll probably put some time into this as soon as I get aome spare time again... which is probably tomorrow.

The problem remains the same, though - very long beams start fading away way to soon of I use only one texture - and if I use multiple textures, it loses much of the detail.

If you compare the difference between huge range beams in High Noon and shorter range beam used in Surrender, Belisarius!... I'm sure You can see the problem. It might also be related to the fact that yellow colour is by default brighter than red or green, because it uses both red and green colours of a pixel. That makes it brighter or "thicker". But, as I said, I'll put some time into this some day during this week... but that also means you won't be getting the GTF <Insert Name> (my modeling attempt) ready anytime soon.

[Mathwiz6]

Oooo... shiny....

Nice beams, I am so using those.

[Herra Tohtori]

Okay, the fading of the LBFGreen and BFRed (most apparent in High Noon) is definitely distance-dependant feature.

In most cases, the beams work just fine - problems with transparency only appear due distance.

I have now completed a re-make of the animated textures, and I'll just have to fiddle the table values onto correct, good looking state. That might take some time. While you're waiting enthusiastically, I show you what the new animations look - roughly.

Basically what I did was to merge two frames and thus create a new frame that makes the transition from frame #1 to frame #3 (old frame #2) notably smoother. This is what the Vasudan beam looks like, in GIF animation...



Terran:



Shivan:



...and AAA:




In *.eff animation files, I tried to create more diversity by altering frame rates and stuff like that. The AAA beams have the fastest FPS, then Terran beam, then Shivan beam, and Vasudan beam is the slowest FPS of the animations.

Also, I might end up having to release low and high textures... the terran beam consists of 33 frames in 1024*256 size. Otheres are only 22 frames, but it's still pretty much. My computer doesn't slow down at all, though, but someone's might...


By the way, I just found out how to boost my overall FPS quite a bit.

I disabled VSync from the launcher, but turned VSync on in NVidia control panel only. It had been on "Application-controlled". Now I can easily use 4xAA, and 8xS AA doesn't drop the FPS too low either... Conclusion: The VSync function selectable via Launcher doesn't give optimal results at least on my computer.


Updates will follow later in the evening, or alternatively during weekend.