[Descenterace]

"People who are willing to rely on the government to keep them safe are pretty much standing on Darwin's mat, pounding on the door, screaming, "Take me, take me!"" --Carl Jacobs

Needless to say, I hate the nanny state with a passion and I'm planning to emigrate as soon as I can afford to. Unfortunately, with National Insurance and taxation as high as ever (which is typical when Labour is in power) that won't be for a while.

I'm tired of the government taking my money because it thinks it knows better what to spend it on. I don't want 40% of my income (even at the 12 grand, supposedly-10%-tax mark) going to the government and the local council. It's MY money and I have worked hard for it, unlike those ****ing fat politicians who have no idea how to run a country but get elected because democracy rewards the ****ers who are good at getting elected regardless of actual ability to govern the country.

Every damn election, every party generates a list of promises (most likely from their collective asses). Four years later, the winner has broken half their promises and put the rest on hiatus just to fulfill one or two. And the sheeple never learn! They keep on trusting these bastards!

Frankly, I think we get the government we deserve. The British population, by and large, seems to know ****-all about how the economy, legal system, or society works, and so they go and vote in whichever party has the biggest gap between perception and reality.

I hate idealists. I hate unwarranted optimism. Neither contribute anything useful, and neither should be allowed near power.

[aldo_14]

EDIt; of course, historically, the British government operated a laissez-faire policy until the voting franchise was widened, anyways; so in reality any government control was something that was initially demanded by the populace rather than forced upon it.

That's what they want you to think!  First rule of totalitarianism: let the stupid people vote.

Um, you might want to bear in mind that we kind of invented the democracy that eventually got exported to the Americas.......

[Flipside]

In all honesty, I don't really see anything much coming out of this, it's vanish in its own paperwork and in about 20 years the government will face being sued by hundreds of kids for discrimination on the basis of this act.

Light Blue touchpaper and retire....

[Harbinger of DOOM]

I say we all move to Austrailia and just let Blair, Bush, and their cronies rape the world while we sit back and drink margaritas.

[Apathy]

I say we all move to Austrailia and just let Blair, Bush, and their cronies rape the world while we sit back and drink margaritas.

pah I thought australia has too much censorship of media.

[Black Wolf]

How do you people keep electing this guy?

The same way we keep electing Howard.

We keep electing Howard because everyone over about 25 remembers the 17% interest rates under the last labor government, and assumes that the current economic boom has to do with the coalition. The poms and yanks don't have the excuse of an economy at one of its strongests periods in history.

Me, I'm a convinced Labor voter, and thinking seriously about joining the student branch here, particularly since Beazley decided to allow Uranium mining (don't confuse British labor with Aussie labor though all non locals reading this - very different ideals).

Africa (once they solve their population and economic problems, the latter of which basically translates to telling the western corporations to **** off)

There's a lot more wrong with Africa than the western corporations.

[Harbinger of DOOM]

I say we all move to Austrailia and just let Blair, Bush, and their cronies rape the world while we sit back and drink margaritas.

pah I thought australia has too much censorship of media.

Hmmmmm...., Mexico?

[aldo_14]

We keep electing Howard because everyone over about 25 remembers the 17% interest rates under the last labor government, and assumes that the current economic boom has to do with the coalition. The poms and yanks don't have the excuse of an economy at one of its strongests periods in history.

Um, depending on what you read, we are in one of our strongest economic periods in history.  Certainly it was one of Labours main campaign points (well, they'd scarcely put forward their record for sensibly defending the country, intelligent spending, sensbile taxation, the NHS, preservation of civil liberties....)

Putting responsibility for that into the hands of the current - or any - government is equally assumptative, though, especially when the BofE is managing interest rates.

Me, I'm a convinced Labor voter, and thinking seriously about joining the student branch here, particularly since Beazley decided to allow Uranium mining (don't confuse British labor with Aussie labor though all non locals reading this - very different ideals).

That's totally wrong, and you know it!







British Labour doesn't have ideals.

[Mefustae]

Me, i'm a convinced Labor voter, and thinking seriously about joining the student branch here, particularly since Beazley decided to allow Uranium mining.

See, I can't really relate to that. We've got the Liberals who are stone-deaf to anything the public says, and Labour who are just a bunch of inept pussies. I think i'm going to become a communist!

[Goober5000]

Um, you might want to bear in mind that we kind of invented the democracy that eventually got exported to the Americas.......

Actually, the Greeks did that IIRC.  But I am grateful for the many English philosophers that fleshed it out.

EDIT: Ugh, there I go with England/UK. I suppose there were philosophers from Scotland too.

And bear in mind that the U.S. was never intended to be a democracy.  It was meant to be a republic, with representative rule, not mob rule.  Only landowners could vote, and they could only vote for state governments and members of the House.  State legislatures voted for Senators, and state electors voted for the President.  It was a tiered system, very different from what's in place now.

[aldo_14]

Um, you might want to bear in mind that we kind of invented the democracy that eventually got exported to the Americas.......

Actually, the Greeks did that IIRC.  But I am grateful for the many English philosophers that fleshed it out.

EDIT: Ugh, there I go with England/UK. I suppose there were philosophers from Scotland too.

And bear in mind that the U.S. was never intended to be a democracy.  It was meant to be a republic, with representative rule, not mob rule.  Only landowners could vote, and they could only vote for state governments and members of the House.  State legislatures voted for Senators, and state electors voted for the President.  It was a tiered system, very different from what's in place now.

Ah, but the mechanics of democracy were exported from the UK; that doesn't mean it was a purely or even initially British concept, just that it bled across to our former colonies.  I'll need to check dates, but land ownership was part of early UK democracy too, a method of restricting the franchise to a select few (a bribeable few, too).  In any case, my point was that expanding the electorate was something that was mandated by popular demand, and that this demand was caused by the ineffectiveness of laissez faire government is keeping the country properly running.

Of course, nowadays we open the franchise, but we limit the (realistically electable) candidates...

[Goober5000]

Ah, but the mechanics of democracy were exported from the UK; that doesn't mean it was a purely or even initially British concept, just that it bled across to our former colonies.  I'll need to check dates, but land ownership was part of early UK democracy too, a method of restricting the franchise to a select few (a bribeable few, too).  In any case, my point was that expanding the electorate was something that was mandated by popular demand, and that this demand was caused by the ineffectiveness of laissez faire government is keeping the country properly running.

Ineffective how?  The growth of the British Empire and the ending of slavery in the first world are pretty effective accomplishments.  On the other hand, the collapse of the Empire coincided with the expansion of the franchise.

The point of restricting the franchise to landowners is that landowners aren't stupid.  If you know how to run and manage a piece of land, you'll very likely know how to run and manage government, and you'll be able to vote wisely.  The problem with expanding the franchise is that you scoop up a lot of guillible people.  Shrewd people in government can then tell them how to vote, or who to vote for, and the sheep will go right along with it.  The landowners, in contrast, would simply laugh them off.

[Harbinger of DOOM]

You have a point there, but if we had that in the US there would be riots all over the place.

[Goober5000]

No there wouldn't.  Human nature is to accept the status quo.

...all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.

[karajorma]

Wanna tell that to Marie Antoinette? I'll lend you my ouija board

[SadisticSid]

He does have a point though. Unless something affects one's future breathing prospects, most will just sit there and take it with a sour face at most.

[Kosh]

And we westerners are so comfortable and confident in the success of our democratic systems that even if we were less lackadasical in protecting them, most of us still don't grasp the massive changes that technology introduces. Which is why I place my hope in the third world democracies *snip*

I wouldn't count too much on any of them. Africa's problems are not just with the population and economic, but they also have serious pandemics (the highest AIDs infection rates in the world are in Africa), famines, wars, and also the biggest problem are the african governments themselves.

[Harbinger of DOOM]

If there were any sane/smart people, the damn Bush administration, Blair's wannabe dictatorship, and any other smart-ass son of a ***** with any plans to eradicate the free-world would be inserted head-first into a giant blender!
But noooooooooooo! Everyone (except us) has to be completely retarded and let Bush and his goons (the NSA, CIA, etc.) F*** the so-called "Land of the free" in the ass!
If I were any older I'd................. well, you know......
I don't wanna say any more, as I might have some government spyware or somethin' in my comp..............
 

Africa's problems are not just with the population and economic, but they also have serious pandemics (the highest AIDs infection rates in the world are in Africa)

Thats prolly because they f*** like bunnies down there...........

[Mefustae]

...and also the biggest problem are the african governments themselves.

Which simply cannot be remedied in the current western political climate. I mean, the reality is that if you're a politician, you quite simply can't say something like "African Governments are problematic and they need serious Western help", as you'll be labelled as a racist by the opposition and ousted next round of elections, regardless of the merit of whatever it is you said. Simple as that.

[Descenterace]

Bloody political correctness is more important than accuracy or honesty these days. And politics is just a ****ing popularity contest; no one in the job seems to give a damn what they do as long as they get re-elected.