Author Topic: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP  (Read 48367 times)

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Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Ok, some fiest tests revealed so many problems, that I probably won't be able to get it ready this week. And I've et to add the most recent models...


I didn't make nearly as many mistakes in the first round...
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Offline Zacam

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
*chuckles* Whenever you get it is when it'll be ready. While it would be nice to release in conjunction, don't strain your self too hard on that.

And, if you happen to need any help during alpha stages, I'm willing and (hopefully) able to supply on that end as well.
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 
Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Don't stress too much.

Except 3.6.9 is coming... :D

 

Offline ARSPR

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
As promised...

After digging in VP I post a list of all ship, POFs and textures I have found in:

  • Media VPs 3.6.8. zeta.
  • Taylor's 710 patches
  • Retail FS2
  • Some additions: The latest Warp, The latest Elysium, Old Taylor's fixed nameplate.dds

I've made an Excel book with the next sheets:
  • VP Priority. It is the list of used vp/places where I've found pofs, tables or textures. It has their loading priority (the greater the higher). As I've made some links in the other sheets you need to order them by priority to make formulas work.
  • Ships. It is a list of all used ships or items within game. There are some of them that beging with SPECIAL. These items aren't found in tables but I suppose they are harcoded as subspace background or starfield background, (I don't know if I've missed some more). The items that begin with TECH are the techroom version of some missiles.
  • Table entries. They are all the ship/item definitions within tables (tbm and tbl) and the POF model they point to.
  • Models. It contains all the POF files that exist in the VPs.
  • Used Textures for each Model. With PCs I've opened every POF file to find which textures they are using.
  • Textures. It contains all the textures that exist in Map folders. I haven't listed wrong places as Effects folder.
  • Glow-maps. The same with -glow.xxx textures.
  • Shine-maps. The same with -shine.xxx textures.

All the data entries have a green background. White cells are formula ones that may help digging in the info.

(I hope there's few mistakes).

[attachment deleted by admin]
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLES WITH FS2:
  • Please, please, please, READ and UNDERSTAND the sticky threads in FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support board.
    A lot of people are willing to help you, but, as anyone can understand, seeing the very same "issues" repeated again and again can become quite depressing. Please, spend a bit of time trying to solve the issue by yourself.
    (Lobo deserves a monument).
  • Then, if you aren't still able to solve your issue, feel free to ask for help in that same board.
    FYI, most of the troubles are caused by wrong mod installations which lead to either missing data or undesired cross-effects between them. Always follow the mod installation instructions and keep a clean FS2 installation as explained in the sticky threads. Two additional links about how the game handles game data:
  • If you think that you've discovered a bug, mantis it.
    Provide as much info as you can, and try to narrow it down. A lonely "FS2 doesn't work" is not a good report.

Whoever Hanlon was: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Albert Einstein: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

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Offline karajorma

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
I have no use for this now.


*Grabs anyway as this is certain to be worth having*
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline ARSPR

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
A really small cosmetic fix suitable for next mediaVP edition.

In "The Mystery of Trinity" because of a little bigger HTL GTD Hecate, (in mv_models), than retail one, the Hercs mark II start inside the Aquitaine hull. I've just moved a little the starting position of all these fighters to make the mission look better.



[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 09:14:44 am by ARSPR »
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLES WITH FS2:
  • Please, please, please, READ and UNDERSTAND the sticky threads in FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support board.
    A lot of people are willing to help you, but, as anyone can understand, seeing the very same "issues" repeated again and again can become quite depressing. Please, spend a bit of time trying to solve the issue by yourself.
    (Lobo deserves a monument).
  • Then, if you aren't still able to solve your issue, feel free to ask for help in that same board.
    FYI, most of the troubles are caused by wrong mod installations which lead to either missing data or undesired cross-effects between them. Always follow the mod installation instructions and keep a clean FS2 installation as explained in the sticky threads. Two additional links about how the game handles game data:
  • If you think that you've discovered a bug, mantis it.
    Provide as much info as you can, and try to narrow it down. A lonely "FS2 doesn't work" is not a good report.

Whoever Hanlon was: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Albert Einstein: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

Dell Dimension 9200 - Vista 32-bit Ultimate
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz - RAM 2 GB DDR2
nvidia 8800 GTX - Integrated Sigmatel Audio

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Ok, I think that shouldn't make any difference for the gameplay. :)
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SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
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Offline ARSPR

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
I've mantised a fixed version of the glow point "Blue_glow4.tga" which has wrong alpha channel (a full white one). (See Mantis 1122). This file is used at least in GTI Arcadia (install01.pof). The actual version causes a black square background.

For noobies: if you download that fixed version from mantis, place any of the two zipped files the zipped tga version inside mediavps\data\maps folder. Create the folder if needed AND remember to delete it when the new mediavp version comes. Just delete the whole data folder to avoid any trouble.

Edited: Unless I'm wrong, DDS format is not valid for glow points (see Mantis 1123). As expected I WAS WRONG. DDS is not used because the actual global priority of TGAs over them.


Now that I have also discovered how glow points are used in pofs, I'll update my previous excel "database" with this info too. (ASAP)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 02:38:24 am by ARSPR »
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLES WITH FS2:
  • Please, please, please, READ and UNDERSTAND the sticky threads in FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support board.
    A lot of people are willing to help you, but, as anyone can understand, seeing the very same "issues" repeated again and again can become quite depressing. Please, spend a bit of time trying to solve the issue by yourself.
    (Lobo deserves a monument).
  • Then, if you aren't still able to solve your issue, feel free to ask for help in that same board.
    FYI, most of the troubles are caused by wrong mod installations which lead to either missing data or undesired cross-effects between them. Always follow the mod installation instructions and keep a clean FS2 installation as explained in the sticky threads. Two additional links about how the game handles game data:
  • If you think that you've discovered a bug, mantis it.
    Provide as much info as you can, and try to narrow it down. A lonely "FS2 doesn't work" is not a good report.

Whoever Hanlon was: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Albert Einstein: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

Dell Dimension 9200 - Vista 32-bit Ultimate
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz - RAM 2 GB DDR2
nvidia 8800 GTX - Integrated Sigmatel Audio

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Actually, it can/could be a question of what format of DDS was it saved as? DXT1, DXT3 and DXT5 all have different results.

My biggest complaint about DDS is the amount of guess work it takes to produce a good, clean, un-crappied copy of something that does what you want it to. The upside (and the only reason I keep trying) is the memory usage of a DDS files is far more efficient than anything else (almost).
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the community on Discord
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Actually, it can/could be a question of what format of DDS was it saved as? DXT1, DXT3 and DXT5 all have different results.

That's because they are different?

DXT1a has one bit alpha channel, DXT1c has only colour channels. DXT3 and DXT5 have proper alpha channels, and Freespace Open handles pictures that HAVE alpha channel differently from those that DON'T have alpha channel.

Proper alpha channel is SCP addition and doesn't work in all cases as well as the "retail" behaviour, in which the engine interprets flattened images to have transparent background.

Generally, if you use DXT1, you get better results (as the code is closer to retail behaviour or something like that), but the image *must* be flattened before converting to DDS format, or the Dreaded Black Edges of Textures (TM) invade the screen.

If proper alpha channel is used, it *works*, but not as well as the retail-ish rendering. It has its advantages, however - mainly the fact that it's easier to understand what becomes transparent in the engine and what doesn't.

Quote
My biggest complaint about DDS is the amount of guess work it takes to produce a good, clean, un-crappied copy of something that does what you want it to. The upside (and the only reason I keep trying) is the memory usage of a DDS files is far more efficient than anything else (almost).

Yeah, well, after someone tells how it goes it gets much more simple and rational and you don't have to guess any more. Taylor helped me a lot when I was trying to figure out how the DDS files work... to tell the truth I was thinking almost along same lines as you before that.

nvDXT is a fine tool for converting images into DDS format. If you know what you're doing it doesn't require guessing and testing, and you can leave it to crunch the images into DDS format and have something to eat, you don't have to manually convert each and every image. If you want to know more, please ask; now I have to get into an exam so... :D


As to what textures can be in DDS format and what cannot be I haven't got the faintest idea.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline ARSPR

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
I'm no expert but here you've got some hints:

+ DDS u8888: Uncompressed (as TGA) with a full alpha channel. It has the highest quality just like TGAs but adding mipmaps.
+ DDS u888: Uncompressed (as TGA) but without alpha channel.
+ DDS DXTxx as explained by Herra Tohtori.

Use nvDXT to convert to any format but if you use compressed use the flag "-quality_highest". Nevertheless some people report strange behaviours. (In my case, nvDXT doesn't work fine if the original file is color-indexed rather than RGB or I always get alpha channel even with DXT1c).

Alpha channel in normal textures sets its transparency ("black" = transparent, "white" = visible). Full white alpha channels caused the black boxes solved through Taylor's alpha patches.

In -shine textures the alpha channel is used to set the amount of env mapping they have. Example: the "mirror" effect a lot of ships in vp 3.6.8. zetas have is caused by a full white alpha channel. (If there's no alpha, the game uses a hardcoded amount of reflection).
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLES WITH FS2:
  • Please, please, please, READ and UNDERSTAND the sticky threads in FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support board.
    A lot of people are willing to help you, but, as anyone can understand, seeing the very same "issues" repeated again and again can become quite depressing. Please, spend a bit of time trying to solve the issue by yourself.
    (Lobo deserves a monument).
  • Then, if you aren't still able to solve your issue, feel free to ask for help in that same board.
    FYI, most of the troubles are caused by wrong mod installations which lead to either missing data or undesired cross-effects between them. Always follow the mod installation instructions and keep a clean FS2 installation as explained in the sticky threads. Two additional links about how the game handles game data:
  • If you think that you've discovered a bug, mantis it.
    Provide as much info as you can, and try to narrow it down. A lonely "FS2 doesn't work" is not a good report.

Whoever Hanlon was: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Albert Einstein: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

Dell Dimension 9200 - Vista 32-bit Ultimate
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz - RAM 2 GB DDR2
nvidia 8800 GTX - Integrated Sigmatel Audio

 

Offline Wanderer

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
IIRC DXT3 and DXT1a should not be used with FreeSpace Open. DXT1c and DXT5 are ok.
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline taylor

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
DXT3 and DXT1a are fine to use with FSO.  DXT3 is more like DXT1, but with 4-bit alpha.  If you don't need a lot of alpha gradients then DXT3 is a good way to go since it can produce a little better quality than DXT5 will give you.  DXT5 has full 8-bit alpha which is a good format for anything needing alpha, unless you just know that DXT3 is all that you need.  Most people just go with DXT5 when needed alpha though, and there is nothing wrong with that.

As far as the game is concerned, DXT1a and DXT1c are the same thing.  Someday this will probably change, which is why I tell everyone to use the proper version for their non-alpha files.  When I do a bmpman upgrade next year the two DXT formats may be handled properly and give you the 1-bit alpha if you wanted it with DXT1a.  So unless you actually want alpha, be sure to use always use DXT1c.

The uncompressed formats which are supported are: u8888 (32-bit), u888 (24-bit), u1555 (16-bit), and p8c (8-bit).  The 16-bit format is what PCX images are turned into when loaded by the game, even though that still only provide 256 colors.  If you can get away with it, and don't need/want the compression, then the 16-bit DDS can be a good one to use since it will need only half the memory as the 32-bit format.  The 8-bit DDS format isn't properly supported right now, though it will load the files.  When time allows me to do so I'll go back and finish up support for that.

DXT2 and DXT4 are the two formats which you can't use with FSO, but then most DDS utilities can't make them either so it's not a big deal.


For an idea on memory usage for the various formats:

For uncompressed formats, memory size is determined by the following formula: width*height*bit-depth.  With "bit-depth" being 4 for 32-bit image, 3 for 24-bit images, 2 for 16-bit images, and 1 for 8-bit images.  Which, for a 515x512 image, gives you something like this:

32-bit:  1meg
24-bit:  768k
16-bit:  512k
8-bit:   256k

Compressed image formats (excluding something like JPG, which uses the above calculations) will be almost exactly what their file sizes are.  But, using the "bit-depth" reference for the above image types, it would break down like this for compressed types:

DXT5:   1    (~256k)
DXT3:   1    (~256k)
DXT1a:  0.7  (~179k)
DXT1c:  0.5  (~128k)

DDS also offers you mipmaps for every format though, and that will add extra to the memory needed (but 99.9% of the time it's better for game performance to have mipmaps over the memory they use).  When you have a full set of mipmap layers (the default for everything) you will add approximately 33% (the basic high average, not totally accurate) to the filesize.  So to get the final memory size of the above formats, just multiply the current sizes by 1.33.


Hopefully that answers most everything. :)

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Testing stage

Please report problems here.

-MV_Assets- (models and textures)

-HTL Tri container doesn't show up (fixed)
-HTL Lucifer doesn't show up (fixed)
-HTL Levi/Fenris doesn't show up (fixed)
-HTL Orion has missing maps (fixed)
-HTL Ursa maps are a mess (fixed... took me a while to figure it out...)
-Missing green and blue glowpoints (fixed)
-HTL Deimos one missing map (fixed)
-HTL Herc glass isn't visible (fixed)
-Subspace nod isn't visible
-Deimos lods do not/partly show up
-Basilisk lod range is wrong
-HTL Trtion one shine map is missing
-Starfield background doesn't show up
-Nameplate fix is missing (again)
-Weird Hippocrates lod settings (by default)
-Wrong table entry for Cain
-HTL Aeolus has some texture problems
-'shimmering' problem on the Orion


-MV_Effects-
-Flak weapons flicker (fixed and imrpoved)
-Mekuh is using the wrong effect
-Akheton is using the wrong effect
-3d Thrusters cause rendering order problems
-Thruster trail is too small
-3d shockwave (med) isn't showing up
-Flak particle works only when mv_adveffects is in place

-MV_Avanced_Effects-
-3d shockwave (high) isn's showing up
-missing schield effect


-MV_Core-
-Mouse cursor on the loading screen
-PXO config could use (fixed)
-Preload.tga and .pcx are still in the VP (fixed)

« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 06:31:53 am by DaBrain »
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SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
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(hosted by Game-Warden)
----------------------------------

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
do we have a new splash screen for this version?
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
I've added a new one, but I'd like to replace it with something better.



BTW is there a high-res map of the Bakha?  I can't even find a shine map for it.
It looks completely out of place.
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SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
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Shadows of Lylat - A Freespace 2 total conversion
(hosted by Game-Warden)
----------------------------------

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
i could take a break from colonial movers and do bakha

whats the file name?

edit: also, even though i tried to get UT to fix the problem, ptah still has misaligned envmaps for some reason, that was my real obstacle for hi-rezzing it, guess that'll have to wait for the next vp
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Whoops... I just made a high-res map for it.  :eek2:

It's pretty crappy though. Just a 'better than nothing' version. With shine map and stuff.

Edit: I'm looking for more testers. The first alpha version is being uploaded atm. Might take a while though.

Spoiler:
A small preview:

« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 08:19:48 pm by DaBrain »
--------------------------------------------------
SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
---------------------------------
Shadows of Lylat - A Freespace 2 total conversion
(hosted by Game-Warden)
----------------------------------

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Has THIS bug been fixed?  If not, make sure to check both Fenris and Leviathan.
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: I need a few testers for the upcomming MediaVP
Well.. it didn't happen for me... but actually, that's what I need 2-3 testers for.

Btw do I have to run a debug build to test it?
--------------------------------------------------
SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
---------------------------------
Shadows of Lylat - A Freespace 2 total conversion
(hosted by Game-Warden)
----------------------------------