[Mars]

Working on part of a larger Shivan theory, and I was told a while back that I had a good excuse for the absence of beam weapons in FS2, so tell me what y'all think. Grammar inquisition is encouraged.

   The Shivans have no need for technological advancement. Their vast numbers ensure that, even if a race emerged with more advanced technology, they would not be a threat to the Shivans. The Shivan's did not have all the ships and technologies (namely beam cannons) during the Great War  that was observed in the Second Shivan Incursion, because the artifacts in question (certain advanced ship designs and beam cannons) were detrimental to subspace, and were unable to traverse the unstable jump nodes that the Shivans used to gain a foothold in the Great War. The Shivan super-destroyer Lucifer is apparently an exception to this rule, but upon closer analysis subtle differences in the weapon technologies in the Lucifer and those present on most warships of the reconstruction era. During the Allied liberation of Cygnus Prime, Admiral Khafre clearly referred to his ships main guns as “photon beam cannons”  but the Lucifer's primary weapons are referred to as “flux cannons” in the technical room's database, and therefore are not apparently not based on the same technologies.

[BS403]

Do You mean FS1
Makes perfect sense to me though

[Mars]

Do You mean FS1
Makes perfect sense to me though

Oops, edited.

[Sarafan]

Really cool, that really is a good theory.

[OMFG PWNT]

i havent play fs1 but i think demon is in it and it has 2 Lred and 1 Sred. lucifer has 2 Sred, orion has 3 Bgreen and 4 Tslash. or are you telling me they changed it...

[Mars]

The only ship w/ beam cannons in fs1 is the lucy

[Snail]

Which actually were just a super huge red turret with a really ugly trail.

[Mobius]

I ahve already talked about this in a other thread,I'm sure V inserted them in FS2 considering them an excellent idea.
On the other hand,the Colony Wars serie used beams for the first 2 epsiodes(in 1997 and 1998)one year before FS2.In Colony Wars 3,you don't see bemas but more advanced laser turrets,similar but much more effective to the GTVA Rapid Lasers in Inferno.
Game developers can make decisions without wondering about their precedent works.
When a new effect is avaiable,programmers put it in.FS2 is what it actually is thanks to beam cannons.
In FS1 there weren't beams except the Lucifer,ok,but if a Lilith can crush a destroyer by herself,the Lucifer losses it's role of feared superdestroyer.A Lilith is a challenge even for warships retrofitted with beams....

[Rand al Thor]

All I know is I played FS2 first and when I finally got my hands on FS1 I spent the whole game just waiting for the Shivans to start pounding away with their beams. Went through several stages;

"Oh its a Cain. You're boned my dear Fenris."
"Wow, this is a really good idea for building suspense. Who knows when they'll fire their beams?"
"Where the hell are those ****ing beams?!!?"
"Those are the Lucifer's beams? Well thats goddamned disappointing".

I was disappointed.

[ilya]

And then if you FRED2 a mission with the Lucifer in it, it has a ton of beams...

[Sarafan]

You know, that's really interesting. If there were beam cannons on FS1, the 14 year war would've been far more destructive but both sides could have fought against the shivans better, maybe with that there would never had a need for an alliance with the vasudans just a temporary cease fire till the shivans are dealt with then the war would continue, Vasuda Prime would still be habitable, since the Lucifer is the only shivan ship with beam weaponry the shivans could have been slaugthered and that could prompt them sending FS2 era shivan ship against the GTA and PVN, another idea for another campaign.

[Mars]

Beam technology was taken from the Shivans, or at least, presumabley

[Pnakotus]

I don't get it - are you saying they didn't bring their most powerful weapons because it would restrict their ability to use unstable nodes?

Absurd as it sounds, at least it handwaves away the 'can use uncharted unstable nodes' from FS1 with 'lol we blew up the main nodes, the Shivans are stopped' from FS2.

However, basing any argument on the laughable techroom descriptions is never a good start.

[Dark Hunter]

I'll point out that Admiral Petrarch told that Capella is unusual in that it has no jump nodes, unstable or otherwise, other than the main three, two of which were blown up.

[Mars]

I don't get it - are you saying they didn't bring their most powerful weapons because it would restrict their ability to use unstable nodes?

It makes as much sense as not using an M-16 in a jungle, and not using an M-4 Sherman in a swamp. The only way the Shivans got into GTA / PVN space in the Great War was through unstable nodes, as far as I know this makes perfect sense.

Absurd as it sounds, at least it handwaves away the 'can use uncharted unstable nodes' from FS1 with 'lol we blew up the main nodes, the Shivans are stopped' from FS2.

I don't quite understand what your trying to say here.

However, basing any argument on the laughable techroom descriptions is never a good start.

Where would you prefer I get my information, if I wanted to I could say "the Lucifer's beams are orange, and most Shivan beams are red, this points to a fundimental difference in technology" but that obviously wouldn't make sense, the tech descriptions I consider accurate unless there's a specific ingame statment that says otherwise

[Goober5000]

I'll point out that Admiral Petrarch told that Capella is unusual in that it has no jump nodes, unstable or otherwise, other than the main three, two of which were blown up.

Petrarch never said that.

[Dark Hunter]

Isn't Petrarch delivering the command briefs at that point in the game (when the player takes command of the 70th Blue Lions). I am absolutely certain one of the command briefs said something like that.

[Mefustae]

Isn't Petrarch delivering the command briefs at that point in the game (when the player takes command of the 70th Blue Lions). I am absolutely certain one of the command briefs said something like that.

Petrarch almost always gives the Command Briefs, but starts giving the Mission Briefs as well when you get command of the 70th.

Beam technology was taken from the Shivans, or at least, presumabley

The Lucifer hulk, or what was left of it, is in the Sol system. The rest of the Lucifer was obliterated in Subspace. Granted, the GTVA most likely worked beams out from scans taken of the Lucifer while it was still on the war-path, but it can still be argued that the technology was entirely home-grown.

It makes as much sense as not using an M-16 in a jungle, and not using an M-4 Sherman in a swamp. The only way the Shivans got into GTA / PVN space in the Great War was through unstable nodes, as far as I know this makes perfect sense.

That's not true. We don't know they came through 'unstable nodes', the game merely mentions the Shivans can use nodes too unstable for allied ships, not that they entered Terran-Vasudan space via one of them. Until canon says otherwise, there is as big a chance as any the Shivans came through a stable node that was simply uncharted.

Where would you prefer I get my information, if I wanted to I could say "the Lucifer's beams are orange, and most Shivan beams are red, this points to a fundimental difference in technology" but that obviously wouldn't make sense, the tech descriptions I consider accurate unless there's a specific ingame statment that says otherwise

Pnakotus makes a good point. The tech entries, while canon at their core, are riddled with inaccuracies and factual errors. One must always back up ones idea primarily from ingame chatter or briefings with support from tech entries, as theories constructed the other way around tend to be a little off-kilter.

[BS403]

I'll point out that Admiral Petrarch told that Capella is unusual in that it has no jump nodes, unstable or otherwise, other than the main three, two of which were blown up.

I seem to remember someone saying that line too

[Mars]

The Lucifer hulk, or what was left of it, is in the Sol system. The rest of the Lucifer was obliterated in Subspace. Granted, the GTVA most likely worked beams out from scans taken of the Lucifer while it was still on the war-path, but it can still be argued that the technology was entirely home-grown.

That made sense to me at the time I said it, but now I don't know why I did, it's bad for my argument, and I think thay photon beam cannons are home grown.

It makes as much sense as not using an M-16 in a jungle, and not using an M-4 Sherman in a swamp. The only way the Shivans got into GTA / PVN space in the Great War was through unstable nodes, as far as I know this makes perfect sense.

That's not true. We don't know they came through 'unstable nodes', the game merely mentions the Shivans can use nodes too unstable for allied ships, not that they entered Terran-Vasudan space via one of them. Until canon says otherwise, there is as big a chance as any the Shivans came through a stable node that was simply uncharted.

Yes it does say it in game.

I'll work on references