[Colonol Dekker]

RE sweet smokes, we had them down my way too, I bought them when i was no more than seven IIRC. And like any idiot seven year olds, my mates and i ate them

Spoiler:

(they were just smoke shaped cheap nasty chocolate)

with the paper still on.......

[karajorma]

The point I was making is that regardless of where you stand on the gun control argument this is a pretty stupid idea.

[Ferret]

RE sweet smokes, we had them down my way too, I bought them when i was no more than seven IIRC. And like any idiot seven year olds, my mates and i ate them

Spoiler:

(they were just smoke shaped cheap nasty chocolate)

with the paper still on.......

It was to prepare you for when you were old enough to smoke (or get hold of them), by that time you wouldn't know any better and would want a cigarette just because you used to have them.
Plus kids think they're cool, and if you taught yourself they were cool so much that young you'ld naturally believe it. By the time you realise the truth, it's too late.

Sure is a good job I never really liked those sweet cigarettes.

[aldo_14]

I remember trying 'smoking' at a friends sleepover in primary 5 or 6.  Thankfully, we smoked rolled up pieces of newspaper lit by the fire, which was enough to put any sane individual off for life.

[Colonol Dekker]

I remember trying 'smoking' at a friends sleepover in primary 5 or 6.  Thankfully, we smoked rolled up pieces of newspaper lit by the fire, which was enough to put any sane individual off for life.

LMAO......................

[NGTM-1R]

In many cases, home gun ownership leads to accidental deaths or the gun being turned on the owner; both of which are IIRC more statistically likely than succesful use for defense.

*mostly proven to be tosh here*

You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Again it comes down to who actually bothered with some training and who just bought a gun because they like having one. People who just like having one and haven't bothered to get any training should not be allowed to own guns. For some reason bans are acceptable and mandatory firearms safety classes aren't, though...

All criminal action carries the risk of injury and death. You can get knifed by the homeowner too, or end up dead from a skull fracture induced by a bat or a hockey stick. You could get shot by the cops, mauled by a guard dog. You take your chance like everyone else.

In regards to the original topic, this is of course a feel-good law. Tokenism. Typical of city officials. If you want anything done correctly you have to talk to the county. :/

[n003lb]

In many cases, home gun ownership leads to accidental deaths or the gun being turned on the owner; both of which are IIRC more statistically likely than succesful use for defense...

If the owner has the proper training, these type of incidents would rarly occure.  IMO, there is absolutly no excuse for "accidentally" shooting someone.  With proper handeling, it's nearly impossible to do this.  Where this problem comes in is when untrained idots (mainly kids) get ahold of a gun and don't know how to use it.  They don't check if it's loaded or chambered and then they play with it.  First off, unless the gun is for home or personal defence, it should never be left unattended while loaded.  If it's for home defence, then it should be where only adults can access it, and everyone, including any children, should be trained in it's proper use.  If the kids in the house know how to use it properly, they'll be less likly to accidentally fire it.

You see, I support the idea of firearms training in public schools.  There would be a lot few accidental deaths if kids were taught how to handel a gun rather than teach them that it's an evil thing, which just sparks their curiosity more than teach them anything.

As for the gun being turned on the owner, if the owner is properly trained and willing to use leathel force if needed, then this should never happen.  The attacker should never get close enough to take the gun before being shot.  If the gun owner hessitates, or is not willing to kill someone in defence, then they should not have a gun for personal defence.  Better off with pepper spray or something then.

The point I was making is that regardless of where you stand on the gun control argument this is a pretty stupid idea.

Sorry about getting it somewhat off topic, and I agree, this is absolutly a stupid idea.  Ranks right up there with "Clunker" laws.

[EDIT]
ngtm1r hit on the same thing while I was posting, hehe

[aldo_14]

Edited; removed some stuff which might be wrong; see following.

  Have to admit I'm not in the mood for a massive big debatey topic, so once I find the things I'm remembering, I'll leave it at that.

(yes, I agree it's a stupid law, too)

EDIT;
ok, editing in stuff for a bit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usguns/Story/0,,1736424,00.html

Forty per cent of American households own guns, but those guns are 22 times more likely to be involved in an accidental shooting, or 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide, than in self-defence.

Ok, can't find a link.  But I can find something I wrote earlier on this topic, which has some source references  (from when I had more time to be an argumentative little bugger, y'see );

ME!

I mean, I know in the US they've had a fair number of studies that have said privately owned guns are predominately used in familiar violence (accidental shootings of family members, suicide, murder of family).  They found that the people arrested for non-traffic offenses were more likely to own weapons (37% versus 25% of general population, that the vast majority of purchased handguns had magazines of over 10 bullets (37% to 14%), and that 32% of all felons obtained weapons by stealing legally held guns (over 500,000 weapons in total). 

Of course, you are far more likely (by about 5 times) to be killed in the commision of a robbery by a criminal armed with a gun, than one armed with a knife.

Additionally, a study on 743 gunshot deaths (Scientific American, vol. 265, 1991, p. 48) found 84% occured due to altercations in the home, and of these only 2 were of an intruder, with only 9 found in court to be justified.  The FBIs 1994-95 release of crime statistics revealed 24,526 murders, 13,980 with handguns, and only 251 of which were found to be justifiable homicide.

Research by Dr. Arthur Kellerman ("Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home," The New England Journal of Medicine, October 7, 1993, pp. 1084-1091) identified that owning a gun carries a risk of murder in the home 2.7 times greater than not owning a gun.

Obviously this is all US figures, but english language details on Brazils' situation seem hard to come by.  Nonetheless, I'd suggest a correlation.

(from later post in thread)


Another little statistic I remember; in America, 56% of gun owners have had some form of formal (military, police, NRA, etc) training.  Yet this group were no more likely to store a gun safely (unloaded, locked away) than those without training (Hemenway, D., S.J. Solnick, and D. Azrael,
"Firearm Training and Storage," Journal of the
American Medical Association, 273(1):46-50, 1995*).  This is especially true for handguns; which, of course, due to their size are more likely to be bought for 'self defense'.

*unfortunately, I've been unable to access beyond the abstract.  I've seen a secondary citation that the most likely group to have an unsecured firearm are those who have bought it for self-defense, own a handgun, and have received formal training.  This was a survey of 800 owners, 20% of whom kept a firearm unlocked and loaded at home.  Bearing in mind that the majority of Americans bought a firearm for the purposes of recreation (i.e. hunting; so likely a rifle/shotgun); 46% buy it for self defense.  Given that a handgun is primarily a self-defense weapon (rapid fire, concealable, somewhat inaccurate), it would seem to make sense that the 20% are primarily of this group.

....and another jump

What I did (just) find;
Apparently, a report by the government of the state of Rio de Janiero found that 72% of guns used in crime were once legally owned; specifically that 78% of armed theft, 67% of rapes at gunpoint, 58% of gun homicides and 32% of kidnappings at gunpoint used legally registered (at one point) guns.

I've also read a disarmament (guns for money) campaign last year led to the first drop in shooting deaths (by 8%) for the first time in 13 years.

(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35984.0.html)

Hate quoting myself, but very lazy tonight  

Anyways, this is OT (And I'll admit that's largely my fault.... ), so I'll just leave it at the mo

[Colonol Dekker]

The most quick and effective solution for Gun Owners... Buy a metal case, Lock the gun up............ Hide the case on top of a cupboard etc away from kids but still within easy access distance. Dont hide it under your pillow cos you saw it in Lethal Weapon or something similar. :