Author Topic: The 3 mystic dwarves  (Read 30424 times)

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Offline judgefloro

  • A jobless judge in a pretend world
  • 26
    • The Black Nazarene blesses Judge Floro
judgefloro,

do you love triple periods

use one word to answer

horses

[attachment deleted by admin]
I am known worldwide as the Psychic & Healing Judge.
https://www.scribd.com/user/108121138/Judge-Florentino-Floro

 

Offline Wobble73

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Someone ban this spambot!
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.
 
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Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
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I don't see any reason to. His only offence is that he uses a new post for each reply and quote, which can be put on his inexperience. Like with Kazan's topics, if you don't like the topic, don't view or reply. :p

 

Offline judgefloro

  • A jobless judge in a pretend world
  • 26
    • The Black Nazarene blesses Judge Floro
Someone ban this spambot!

we have here in the philippines problem with DSL, PLDT on our Internet... i had doubled posted without knowing ... since the server is too slow... and defective... hope you understand our predicament of our internet...

let me quote some ....

David Pannick, QC
 
 
 
The Times June 06, 2006


I used to be a judge but I'm all right now . . .
by David Pannick
QC
 
 
 
LUNACY on the Bench is not as common as prime ministers and home secretaries stung by judgments critical of their policies like to suggest. The recent decision of the Supreme Court of the Philippines to dismiss Judge Florentino V. Floro Jr as a judge of the Regional Trial Court in Malabon City because of a “medically disabling condition of the mind” that rendered him “unfit to discharge the functions of his office” repays careful consideration by any student of the judiciary. 
 
 
 


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28010-2208464,00.html
I am known worldwide as the Psychic & Healing Judge.
https://www.scribd.com/user/108121138/Judge-Florentino-Floro

 

Offline judgefloro

  • A jobless judge in a pretend world
  • 26
    • The Black Nazarene blesses Judge Floro
I don't see any reason to. His only offence is that he uses a new post for each reply and quote, which can be put on his inexperience. Like with Kazan's topics, if you don't like the topic, don't view or reply. :p

with all due respect to the forum members, these 4 DAYS, here in the philippines we are experiencing problems with our server, DSL, PLDT.. very slow ...

i sincerely apologize if i had violated any of the forum rules and guidelines...
human nature is sometimes my reason ...
but for clarification... my weakness is language... i have poor commands of SLANG and difficult idiomatic english or american expressions ... so if there is a reply that is SLANG and i cannot understand...

i just copy and paste my replies from other forums..

may i please be ASKED specific questions so that i would not called a spammer...

hoping for your kind understanding of my little learning of computer and these forum rules...

sincerely,
judge floro
I am known worldwide as the Psychic & Healing Judge.
https://www.scribd.com/user/108121138/Judge-Florentino-Floro

 

Offline Col. Fishguts

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may i please be ASKED specific questions so that i would not called a spammer...

Quote
A dwarf just appeared behind my monitor and told me he foresees much hilarity spawning from this thread.

What should I do ?
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

Visit The Babylon Project, now also with HTL flavour  ¦ GTB Rhea

 

Offline judgefloro

  • A jobless judge in a pretend world
  • 26
    • The Black Nazarene blesses Judge Floro
may i please be ASKED specific questions so that i would not called a spammer...

Quote
A dwarf just appeared behind my monitor and told me he foresees much hilarity spawning from this thread.

What should I do ?

hard to tell, there are so many dwarves... different kinds.. blacks, reds and whites...

there are plenty of dwarves in banaue rice terraces our 8th wonder of the world...


i really do not know... hard to say ...

seriously now, there are millions of dwarves ... and many had seen them not only in front of monitors... lester hardy wrote justice bedsworth that in ireland and iceland... there are so many and people believed in these elementals..

let me divert ... why not see our beautiful 8th wonder of the world rice terraces... there are plenty of dwarves there...

i could not resist writing this to you...
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=banaue

i read in the our papers today that hilary won .. and would be a ....



i viewed this and a bit scary...

http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/cthulhustatue.png
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 04:43:41 am by judgefloro »
I am known worldwide as the Psychic & Healing Judge.
https://www.scribd.com/user/108121138/Judge-Florentino-Floro

 

Offline judgefloro

  • A jobless judge in a pretend world
  • 26
    • The Black Nazarene blesses Judge Floro
Thank you Judge Floro for your keen interest in our community. With respect sir, I would kindly request that you consult your diminutive associates, in addition to your own considerable clairvoyance abilities, to determine whether a sequel to Freespace series of games will be forthcoming. I await your response with palpable anticipation, and hope that your good name is cleared and the sinister efforts to undermine your authority are resoundingly defeated.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freespace
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=3&c=12&t=14335
It SHOULD have a sequal!
ive been thinking. about games. i probably do that more often then i should...

anyway, i was thinking about all the game franchises that were/are really awesome, but probably wont see the light of day again, because the market is flooded with WoW fanatics and people who worship EA.

anyway, if i had to pick two game franchises that really need a modern sequal, they would be freespace and tribes.

decent freespace is a space combat sim. one of the best ive seen. it has a compelling story line spanning voer two games, and has the potential for an even better story to come.

with next gen graphics, physics and a bit of love, it could be the game of 2011. unfortunately, the license is held by those who were formally volition entertainment (what an epic bunch. RIP a great team), and thus we wont be seeing another one soon. ….

 :)  :)  :)  :pimp:

I replied here instead of writing a new topic, since this is memorable to me: you wrote this thread and I found yeah!

Hi,
Hi miss all of yeah, Happy Easter,

Actually, I visited this thread since I am about to finish my 900 pages (6x9) 2nd book on my ordeal, case and the 3 mystic dwarves; I am including this thread and about 70 of the 140 forums that wrote about my case (and wherein I responded); they are part of my life: the first book is just a copy paste of links (just in case you have no time to read my links in Google search "judge florentino floro", and a little bit of pleadings and tirades against those who fabricated my story; but the second book is 80% original - all about the untold DIARY of my 7 years judicial suspension, the prophecies and the 3 mystic Filipino dwarves.
(16,762,368 bytes)
Link to file :
jjjjjjjjjj&/structured_settlement.txt" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.zendfile.com/?page=file&fid=8343362332&qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm3333333344444444jjjjjjjjjjjj55555555 jjjjjjjjjj&/structured_settlement.txt
or simply :
 
http://www.zendfile.com/8343362332

I uploaded the first book which I wrote last year (in zendfile hosting; pls. check if there is virus, and then, you can open it);
As I said, I did not publish it here but merely donated copies to top libraries OPAC -
De La Salle University, Manila, Philippines

http://lib1000.dlsu.edu.ph/record=b1257208
ISBN 9716916195

Author Floro, Florentino V., 1925-
Title World-famous mystic : Armand, Luis & Angel, the three dwarfs meets the judge-- psychic & healing martyr of Filipino justice / by Florentino V. Floro, Jr.
Publication info., 2007 (Quezon City : Central Book Supply)

http://www.thefootnote.net/v5q3/1201heck.html

LUIS the Elf of Cosmic Holy Justice
and His Pet Human, His Honor
Florentino V. Floro, Jr.

by Laszlo Xalieri
December 2007
Judge Florentino V. Floro, Jr., passed his bar exam with high grades. He passed an interview okay, didn't do so well with a psychological evaluation, got a second opinion that was allowed to overrule the first one, and took a seat on the bench. In eight months or so, he was suspended pending an investigation regarding a handful of irregularities. Blue robes, for instance, instead of black ones (except on Fridays, in order to recharge his psychic powers).

Before you shout "Looney!" recall the definition of pathology: It's not an illness or a disease unless it interferes with one's ability to work or study, with relationships with friends or family. Short of that, and it's just a quirk. A trait.

And if belief in psychic powers isn't quite your bag, suck it. A lot of people believe in psychic powers. It doesn't matter if it's bunkum. You can't go firing or imprisoning people because they have a belief you think is funny. Hell, there'd be maybe seven or eight of us incredulous skeptic bastards left outside the prisons, each trying our dead-level best to lock up the last six or seven.

Like I said, suck it. Judicial, congressional, and educational sessions are opened with prayers worldwide. Floro had a reading from the Bible he liked to include. He also claimed to have a God-given gift to heal people, which he exercised on breaks. And a few other things, all of which are very well documented, if you are interested in the gory details. Start here, if you feel like being thorough.

Anyway, he was suspended pending investigation. It was supposed to take around sixty days. Ninety max. Floro fought back, challenging the qualifications and impartiality of the investigators, challenging any questionable detail, and at the same time getting upset (and filing complaints accordingly) that things were taking so long.

A couple months short of seven years later, the Supreme Court of the Philippines issues a ruling on the thirteen charges and/or other points to be investigated for Floro's suspension. In the end they fine him forty thousand pesos (around $1,000 US), reimburse him three years of back pay (blaming him for dragging things out, so sticking him with responsibility for the other four years) and declare him unfit for judicial service due to his unsavory psychological quirks and apparent unwillingness to present a dignified image consistent with trial judges in the Philippines. Separated from service. Fired. More or less.

Consistency check: His beliefs interfered with his work. Therefore, according to the definition of pathology, he is ill. Except, say, if he had a job as an evangelist or a faith healer or some other kind of non-judge bureaucrat, at which point he would be sufficiently sane. In fact, the sixty-plus-page ruling I linked to above pretty much said that.

Is it possible to be conditionally ill, depending on your job? Given the definition of pathology, I'd have to say yes. For instance, I'd be nuts to be a linebacker for the New England Patriots. I'm 5'4" and less than a hundred and sixty pounds. Even if I were otherwise qualified, it would be clear evidence of a suicidal urge.

I haven't gotten to the elfs yet. Duendes, Elemental spirits of great power, the Red ones forever at war with the Blacks. Like ants here in Georgia. Except in the Philippines (and probably elsewhere) the Red ones are the good guys. Provisionally speaking.

Elfs appear to feature prominently in Floro's case. I'm assuming they're Catholic elfs, as Floro is himself devoutly Catholic. And before you say anything here, let me mention law, and Santeria, and how all the classic pagan deities and heroes of the British Isles ended up as Catholic saints. I've read the Bible in its entirety, even the slightly fatter Catholic one, and, let me tell you, a lot of popular proper nouns are missing. Among the missing names are Luis, Armand, and Angel -- the three duendes who have been an integral part of Floro's life since 1996 (although Angel didn't come along until 2006).

Floro's mildly retarded brother, who, according to Floro, retains enough innocence to experience the beings directly, introduced Floro to Luis back in 1984, around the time of death of their father. Floro himself experiences Luis as a nearly daily visitation of violet and white lights and, at least once each, as a "regal violet king" and as a chicken. Floro's compact with Luis et al grants Floro certain healing gifts, psychic powers, and the ability to bestow curses to punish the wicked and corrupt. (In particular the wicked and corrupt justices of the Philippine court system, which, indeed, have an international reputation for being quite wicked and corrupt.)

This is the part that attracted the attention of the international press, of course. According to the take on the story you'd get from just reading the headlines and no deeper, you'd discover that Floro was fired from his position because of his association with killer elfs. Those headlines were indeed what caught my eye. I commented about them (irreverently, as usual) in my blog. Floro himself responded. And, sensing with my own psychic powers a depth of story only hinted at by the headlines, I asked him for an interview. He said, in effect, bring it.

He's been interviewed a number of times before. I read those interviews over and set up a bunch of questions that I believed filled in some gaps from previous interviews. These are the questions I sent:

    * What's the ideal outcome for your current situation with respect to your career, your family, and you daily life?
    * What is your typical day like? To what extent do supernatural elements of any kind affect your average day, if at all?
    * What was the best day of your life? What was the worst?
    * If you had to choose to give up one of your goals or gifts, which one would it be and why?
    * How would you describe your relationships with your brothers?
    * Why did you drop the suits you had pending against those people you were accusing of trying to ruin your career? What made you decide to let them off the hook?
    * Do you ever have disagreements with Luis, Armand, and Angel? Do they ever scare you?
    * I have a big problem with punishing one's family for crimes one has committed. In modern days, it's permissible to choose your wife or husband, but children can in no way be responsible for the actions of their parents. You mention that some judicial official's child was born with epilepsy as punishment for something a parent has done to you. Where is the justice in that? And doesn't it imply that that your brother's mental disabilities might be punishment for something you or your parents might have done?

In response I received ... well, it's hard to describe what I received. When reformatted to single-spaced ten-point type, around ten pages. Later expanded to fifteen--and simultaneously filed with the Philippine Supreme Court, lightly seasoned with my own personal information harvested from various and sundry sites and what passes for my credentials. To be followed by a death announcement, a travelogue with some nice pictures, and previous versions of mailings reissued with expansions, illustrations, and attachments. All in good fun.

The question about "ideal outcome" was skipped, or else embedded elsewhere. In all, he seems willing to accept whatever horrors Luis drags him through as an acceptable substitute to "ideal."

Here's a portion of his response to the "typical day" question, lightly edited for style and grammar and shrunk like a new cotton t-shirt in a super-hot clothes dryer:

    I've been jobless since July 20, 1999. I begged for compassion from the most powerful in our judicial, executive and legislative departments ... from all my classmates (Ateneo Law, Class of '82, including 2 incumbent Supreme Court Justices). I asked all of them to give me clemency, compassion, justice, kindness, and a job. But as Luis desired, I failed in my quests.

    I've been financially helped by a kind brother (we are five) since last year and, in my most difficult times, just to survive. Luis would not permit me yet to have a job. He wanted me to suffer more. By bearing my cross, Luis would be able to infuse upon my mortal body the higher violet and white pure lights to fight evil or the black angels (fallen, the instruments of 666, in Revelations).

    Two of my brothers are multimillionaires. (They have mansions in Valle Verde, Pasig City, Metro Manila, in Bulacan and in Greenhills; they are engaged in gold, diamond and foreign exchange trading; they have expensive cars - Mercedes, Volvo, Pajero, Nissan Durano, etc., and several security guards...) I have only rented a house since 1989. I walk and take the bus.

    From April 7, 2006 until today, as I am unemployed, I wake up at 10 AM. I eat vegetables and fishes and sometimes meat. I sit in an Internet cafe from 12 Noon to 12 Midnight (with breaks, 8 to 10 PM to eat). I respond to a thousand blogs' comments, like yours and thousands of posts in 140 forums that reported my case based on more than a hundred international wire reports and front-page headlines. I am an established Wikipedia editor and contributor. Recently, I spent about 10 hours daily editing Wikipedia and creating articles.

I'm assuming the best day involved entering into his agreement with Luis. For worst days, he mentions three attacks on his life. I'm assuming ordinary muggings, as he doesn't mention suspected links to enemies in the courts system or elsewhere. In response to my question about gifts to give up, he says he basically has no choice in the matter and it's impossible to give any up, adding that his life would be worthless without Luis and the impact he has had.

Of his four brothers, two of them are wealthy, and at least one of those, I'm assuming, is his benefactor. His brother Robert is the mildly retarded one, and Floro has custody. There is another brother who apparently believes Floro should not have custody of Robert and has sued unsuccessfully to take Robert away. Their relationship is understandably somewhat cool.

Floro filed suits against a number of people who he believes acted with malice to try to get him fired from his job. He says his reason for dropping the suits was that he could forgive them somewhat for their fear and discomfort in working with him, and also the suits were about to be dismissed on technicalities anyway. It was an easy concession.

The final two questions generated a bit more in terms of response. I gather from Floro's words that Luis and company terrify him all the time. They ask him to perform horrible curses on the corrupt judges and justices -- former coworkers and associates -- and their families and spouses and children. He's refused a number of times and eventually was forced to compromise or give in completely. He sent me huge catalogs of material, documented in English and Tagalog (not that I can read Tagalog, but that's my problem, not his), detailing pretty much every horrible thing that has happened to judges and supreme court justices and their families, and claiming personal responsibility for deaths, illnesses, accidents, birth defects, and the occasional courthouse fire.

As you can see in my final question, I take issue with visiting divine retribution on innocent children and generations unborn and ask to hear his justification. His response is largely that it's always been done that way and gives numerous biblical references, paying particular attention to the 109th and 73rd Psalms, which are, indeed, quite grim.

That doesn't help me much; I've carried that same objection to God Himself, who offers absolutely no justifications for anything He does. God's Divine Finger of Holy Retribution is roughly ten miles wide at the tip and has all the fine motor control of an epileptic ape on an anthill.

God possibly thinks so, too. In the Old Testament, even before there were kings, His prophets set up the office of judges (with whole books dedicated to the phenomenon) and legal systems to help give attention to the fiddly details of human interactions and prescribe sentences, while still a tad harsh by modern Western standards, perhaps less overkill than worldwide flooding, plagues of frogs, killing all the firstborn males, and torrents of burning brimstone. And -- if you believe modern evangelists -- hurricanes, earthquakes, and tsunamis.

It's my opinion that even a laughably corrupt judiciary is (albeit slightly) preferable to "a STAIN on his blood unto the FOURTH GENERATION," because at least with the former you can have hope of justice if you can raise enough money for the bribe.

My further opinion, Mr. Floro, is that Luis is bad news for you. He may have a tremendous plateful of holy work for you to do and bizarre and cool holy gifts with which to pay you, but you won't have a peaceful, normal life until you give him his walking papers. In your own words, "HIS WAYS ARE NOT OUR WAYS." I believe there's good reason for this. I also believe that the supernatural should be left to its own devices and that we humans should stick with what we're good at --discernment and fine manipulation with our tiny fingers. And justice on a human scale.

Anyone who wants copies of Floro's literal and lengthy responses can feel free to contact me. I will happily forward them along.
mailto:
[email protected]

NOTES:
Crucify elfin judge

Flopo will be crucified on Good Friday (the days radars of fetus suckers in full moon are electrified and opened full volume)

Frolo will rise on Resurrection and Apocalypse day

Floro and the 3 Mystic Dwarves will judge those tons of detractors and litany of enemies on the 2nd Comming of the elves.

This hour, 4:32 pm Good Friday, our country (due to the 1521 - 1899 Spanish colonization) is immersed in the culture of saints, images and colorful Holy Week;
I want to share this with you; but lest I be misconstrued, I do believe more in Mass and Rosary, rather than all these parades; in the seminary in 1965-1974, we were taught about Mass as center of Faith ... so our chapels are bare of saints, images, except a modern crucifix ...


http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/home/19859/Saksi-Life-size-images-of-saints-paraded-in-Paete-Laguna Saksi: Life-size images of saints paraded in Paete, Laguna 03/21/2008

http://www.gmanews.tv/video/19861/Saksi-Group-in-Quezon-makes-'pabasa'-videoke - Saksi: Group in Quezon makes 'pabasa' videoke - 03/19/2008

http://www.gmanews.tv/video/19813/Procession-of-moving-images-start-in-Laguna Procession of moving images start in Laguna - 03/19/2008
http://www.gmanews.tv/video/19876/Thousands-expected-to-witness-crucifixion-rites-in-Pampanga

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/85685/35-devotees-nailed-to-the-cross-in-Good-Friday-traditions

http://www.pr-inside.com/philippine-devotees-nailed-to-the-cross-r497319.htm
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/193824,thousands-flock-to-good-friday-crucifixions-in-northern-philippines.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/21/2196376.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200803/r234482_941259.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7305522.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1901095.stm - Pictures


Fresh from the OVEN:

Filipinos warned on crucifixions
By Frances Harrison Religious affairs reporter, BBC News
Filipinos re-enact Good Friday crucifixion
Thousands flock to Good Friday crucifixions in northern Philippines
35 Devotees nailed to the cross in Good Friday rites - 03/21/2008 | 02:24 PM

SAN FERNANDO, Philippines - Philippine devotees re-enacted Jesus Christ's suffering Friday by having themselves nailed to crosses in rites frowned upon by church leaders in Asia's largest predominantly Roman Catholic nation. Fernando Mamangon, 37, was among the first of some 30 men scheduled to go through the Good Friday rites in three villages in northern Pampanga province's San Fernando city. Five other devotees, including a woman, were nailed to crosses in nearby Bulacan province. It was Mamangon's 13th straight year for the rite, which penitents endure to fulfill a vow or pray for a cure for illnesses. In San Pedro Cutud village, the main site of the annual event, 19 people have signed up for the crucifixion, according to local officials. Another 10 are expected to be crucified in nearby Santa Lucia village. Luciana Reyes, a 48-year-old housewife, says this will be the 19th time that she will be nailed to a cross and she vowed to continue re-enacting the crucifixion on Good Friday for as long as she can.
I am known worldwide as the Psychic & Healing Judge.
https://www.scribd.com/user/108121138/Judge-Florentino-Floro

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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:jaw: This thread. . . . . Took me by suprise. How completely random.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
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(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
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Offline Sandwich

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Oh, gawd.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Polpolion

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Offline CP5670

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Quote
Flopo will be crucified on Good Friday (the days radars of fetus suckers in full moon are electrified and opened full volume)

:lol:

 

Offline achtung

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I want a copy of that bot.
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Offline Kosh

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Necrothreaddage!
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Not again. :(

 

Offline Kosh

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Yes again, the spambot is back for our amusement. :p
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline S-99

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WTF is up with floro? This is truly unique and mind-boggling for the hlpbb.

Floro, say my name and say hi to me :yes: (bot/person doesn't seem to like to write our names).
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Here's a better one; I'll be suprised if he gets this:

WHAT IS IN THIS PICTURE?


This picture.


Of course, he'll probably ignore my post, so it's not like it matters. :pimp:

 

Offline castor

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Ehem... mind to check the link name :)

 

Offline Polpolion

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Ehem... mind to check the link name :)

It's fine. It's still vague enough to promote confusion.