[bizzybody]

The solution to problems with triangulation when converting to a format that insists a mesh has to be only triangles, is to do it yourself manually. This is especially important with low-poly designs where the direction a slightly non-flat quad is triangulated can be the difference between what you want and your ship looking like a small bomb went off under the skin.

Unfortunately for freebie lovers, trueSpace didn't get an Add Edges function until 4.something... but with careful use of the Bevel tool and edge/vertex deleting you can put edges between any two vertices on a poly in 3.2.

My step-by-step tutorial on single poly triangulation in tS 3.2. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,41914.0.html

Heyyyy mods!? How about a subforum for trueSpace 3.2 tips and tricks?

[Descenter]

Well I could drop the cockpit to a 6 face version.

[Turey]

Well I could drop the cockpit to a 6 face version.

it should be fine as-is. I'll finish it up later today.

[Scooby_Doo]

Well I was referring to was unoptimized beveling, Max has this problem too.

For example
I take this surface:
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Bevel it once, i've created 4 new triangles (actually if it's a real 3d rectangle then 8 tri)
|___
___|
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Bevel it again
|___
___|_____
________|
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You can see the problem.

[aldo_14]

huh?

[Scooby_Doo]

|___
___|_____
________|
|

Highlighted in red.  Those are two extra triangles. 
It should look like this:
|___
      |____
________|
|

While the two polys may not be much of a problem speed is concerned, they do add up in the UVMap (since their usually seperated from the rest of the uv mesh.)

[Col. Fishguts]

You can delete them manually.
Or bevel the two faces together at first and then bevel the mid-level one back up and do a weld afterwards. (if that makes any sense to you)

[bizzybody]

OK, got the wing all fixed up by slicing off the right half (which had some problems) and using Mirror Model in tS 6.6 to mirror and weld together one that was all good.

As for the body, I tried the same but it has some really funky faces connected to all the wrong places. I've done a bunch of fiddling, triangulating by hand and minute vertex position adjustments so those faces will _stay_ triangulated if anything with automatic edge deletion is done.

Still haven't figured out how to kill the bad faces. I may try chopping off the left half of the original and starting over with the tweaking. *tries it* Oh bloody... That's WEIRD. tS 6.6 now won't decompose the .3ds the same way it did the first time. It keeps the wing stuck on and only breaks off the right launcher.

Even odder, the first time it produced copies of a couple of faces as seperate objects, same story the second time importing but two _different_ faces. Looks like an external format conversion is needed.

If'n someone can fix the wonky geometry and post back the body half, I'd appreciate it, or at least critique the edits. Lots fewer faces on the body now.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[aldo_14]

|___
___|_____
________|
|

Highlighted in red.  Those are two extra triangles. 
It should look like this:
|___
      |____
________|
|

While the two polys may not be much of a problem speed is concerned, they do add up in the UVMap (since their usually seperated from the rest of the uv mesh.)

I recognise that, I just don't understand why it's a problem - either delete the polys, or poly-divide, extrude, then weld.  Piece o' piss to fix.

[Descenter]

OK, got the wing all fixed up by slicing off the right half (which had some problems) and using Mirror Model in tS 6.6 to mirror and weld together one that was all good.

As for the body, I tried the same but it has some really funky faces connected to all the wrong places. I've done a bunch of fiddling, triangulating by hand and minute vertex position adjustments so those faces will _stay_ triangulated if anything with automatic edge deletion is done.

Still haven't figured out how to kill the bad faces. I may try chopping off the left half of the original and starting over with the tweaking. *tries it* Oh bloody... That's WEIRD. tS 6.6 now won't decompose the .3ds the same way it did the first time. It keeps the wing stuck on and only breaks off the right launcher.

Even odder, the first time it produced copies of a couple of faces as seperate objects, same story the second time importing but two _different_ faces. Looks like an external format conversion is needed.

If'n someone can fix the wonky geometry and post back the body half, I'd appreciate it, or at least critique the edits. Lots fewer faces on the body now.

Just don't stray too far from the original, please.

[Descenter]

Thanks to Turey I did manage to get it to change it to a pof file now, which I was wanting from this so thanks.  if you still want to play areound with this model more feel free.  Just send me the final product when you finished at [email protected].  Thanks all.

[Scooby_Doo]

Problem, no (btw deleting them and not welding the vertices will leave a open gap in the model (although not visible, just a bit more confusing in the uvmap [it'll appear as if it's not connected to anything])



Course the extrude the entire thing and then extrude again will prevent this.

[bizzybody]

Descenter, one thing to do is to delete the recessed bores of the weapon barrels. Such detail will never be seen in the game and a piece of the texture with a dark spot for the hole in the muzzle will work just fine visually.

[Scooby_Doo]

Descenter, one thing to do is to delete the recessed bores of the weapon barrels. Such detail will never be seen in the game and a piece of the texture with a dark spot for the hole in the muzzle will work just fine visually.

Thats doing a good share of all those rectangles in the uvmap

[Flipside]

Indeed, it's no-ones fault, but in some ways the flexibility of the FS2 engine nowadays means you have to be all the more careful about ghost polies and 2-point polies etc. You wouldn't get away with them with the old engine, whereas you can in the new, and they can seriously eat the polygon count, and can lead to problems that may not show up until later in the mission.

I do like having a more forgiving Engine, it makes life easier for people to start making Mods for Freespace, but it also means that people can develop 'bad habits' while modelling (That's not a dig at you Descenter, everyone goes through this stage with modelling, which is why everyone knows what the problem is ).

[Descenter]

Lol, I can already kinda figure that, but just for curiositiy's sake, I wanted to see what it does ingame.

[bizzybody]

OK, spent some time just now trying some more stuff on it, and the results don't bode well.

This model has some seriously nasty geometry problems.

1. The nosecone. Behind that nice extruded nose is a rectangular polygon the app used to make this with 'forgot' to remove when the nose was extruded. The nose can be deleted and that's OK, can be redone in some other app.

2. The bottom 'V' hull area. This whole section from stem to stern is just sitting on (under) a giant face that comprises the whole underside. I assume this was the shape you started with in Sketchup? If there were no other problems, this could probably be properly joined up to the main model in trueSpace. Move the eye inside the model, between the V bottom and that huge face and the whole face can be selected. This makes double faces outboard of the V bottom on the undersides of the wings.

3. The wing gun emplacements. At the top edge of their cutouts into the wings, there's a double edge. The top of the cutout is three segments but that edge on the top wing face runs straight across the cutout in one segment.

4. The top of the rear pylon. It looks like it's normal, but after removing the wing and using the rectangle point select in tS 6.6 then trying to move that top edge reveals that those faces are just leaned against one another, they move off in all directions.

I'm calling this model a nice design idea  but totally FUBAR in the geometry department.  Though I did manage to get the wing section cured earlier, see my post above with it and half the body with cleanup/editing, though still geometry problems.

If you still have that initial polygon/plane/shape, try getting it into tS 3.2 and start over. One thing with trueSpace, it's really hard to create geometry nasties like you got with Sketchup and converting to .3ds

[Descenter]

Does it matter now that i did get it into a pof format and can place it into fred2 without a problem? 

Fun thing is now, It's bigger than i anticpated it would be.  So instead, im going to cal it a player useable gunboat ship thingy.   

Gun points, thruster, sheilds, and docking point all have been placed and it seems to do fine.  Of corse that's from someone that probably doesnt know anything anyhow.

And I can only get better from here as time goes on, right? 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[bizzybody]

If it works and you've the CPU power to hurl it around, eh. What's the native file format of that sketchup program? Were it my creation, I'd make notes of all the vertex coordinates, then start from scratch with a new model. Possibly take a cube that's been quad divided several times then manually move every vertex out to match the position list for the main body.

I've done that before when dinking around got something I really liked, then I figured 'Just *one more* vertex delete here... oh @#%@#! Now it's ripped a hole in it!'.

[Flipside]

Heh, my first ever ship was about 30-40 polys iirc, more or less a triangle with a cockpit It's a good feeling just to see your own model in game and fighting

And yep, it gets easier with practice, though, I fear, setting up Hierarchies will always be a pain in the bum.