Author Topic: FreeSpace era ground combat  (Read 16227 times)

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Offline Mobius

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
Giving the camera movements,the debris should have been little.It's just my sensation...
It's colours remind the Hades,but nothing more.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
What structures?

The clearly destroyed buildings in the background.. You know, lots and lots of twisted metal support poles

----------

Why were the bodies left?
They often are if they are hard to reach or you have more pressing buisness. In a battle for survival of the species you won't spend men and resources to dig graves when the enemy is about to blow up your home planet.
Even after that, there would be far more pressing issues - the rebuilding of the shatterd worlds.

Deneb IV (it was that, right?) looks uninhabited in Fs2 time, prolly nobody went back there.
Many dead soldiers trought the history were never burried properly, but were just left to rot.

The battle of Deneb in the cutscene was not the batlte with the Galatea (altough that also took place in Deneb).
We can see a tow fleets colliding - there are various cruisers and destroyers from all races. Something the FS1 engine couldn't really handle.


As to how the soldiers got there...

Falling out from a ship? Impossible, there are only soldiers there, armed to the teeth.. unless all of them fell out with their weapons.

Battle with the Shivans? Possible, but where are the shivan bodies? We know terrans are capable of taking thenm out, espcially with heavier weaponry. And I doubt the bodies would be so "neat" - they look like they were killed by bullets/laser fire. A shivan would slice them in two or fry them.

Lucifer bombardment? Being hit by the lucifers beam would vaporize the bodies. tehy could have been away from the city and killed by the blast that hurled them far away..But then again, there are no civilian bodies that would also be hurled in that situation.

The whole custscene talks about the past and ghosts that haunt the ruins (the GTA being a ruin in some way too). Three great threats emerged in the FS past - the shivans, the HOL and the GTI rebellion.
So the cutscene references them.

I still think those are the ruins of some other battle and not a batlte with the shivans.

If they bombarded the planet, why send ground troops for that useless peace of rock? A few surviving humans are no threat or imeddiate concern of the shivans - tehy would die anyway without help.

HOWEVER, givan that this IS a cutscene that does appear to hold some conflict with in-game cannon (like the Hades..IF it is the Hades in the first place..It might be some older GTA destroyer) it should probably be tied more to hte shivans than anything else.

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Offline Turey

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
Why were the bodies left?
They often are if they are hard to reach or you have more pressing buisness. In a battle for survival of the species you won't spend men and resources to dig graves when the enemy is about to blow up your home planet.
Even after that, there would be far more pressing issues - the rebuilding of the shatterd worlds.

Deneb IV (it was that, right?) looks uninhabited in Fs2 time, prolly nobody went back there.
Many dead soldiers trought the history were never burried properly, but were just left to rot.

I agree with you on that, but,

The battle of Deneb in the cutscene was not the batlte with the Galatea (altough that also took place in Deneb).

No. It's the same battle. They make a big deal of showing the Galatea getting raped by the Lucifer.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
No. It's the same battle. They make a big deal of showing the Galatea getting raped by the Lucifer.

Actually, :v: have stated that the destroyer in the cutscene is not the Galatea.

Its actual identity is supposedly the GTD Legion, but mostly because :v: consented to call it that rather than because they decided its name beforehand.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
As far as I can remember, both GTD Galatea and GTD Legion perished in the Battle of Deneb.

I would also say it was the GTD Legion getting killed in cutscene even without confirmation from :v:, because Galatea was (supposedly) destroyed right after the GTD Eva was destroyed by bombers, and in the intro cutscene the Demon-clas destroyer is still there, more or less intact.

Both got destroyed in same battle AFAIK.
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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
Who ever said that that particular Demon was the SD Eva? I think the Shivans had FAR more than two Demon-class destroyers (that's all we ever see directly in FS1, right?).
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
The cutscene text said it was Battle of Deneb (senior), and AFAIK there were no other Demon class destroyers in that particular battle... or were there? :nervous:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
If there were any more demon class destroyers in the battle of Deneb, I would've blown them to hell.

FS1 era destroyers weren't immune to fighter level blasters.

 
Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
My attempt at explaining cutscenes:

#1 To explain why the surface of the planet was so scarred up, there was a major battle take place in orbit of the same planet. I would like to think those may be the cause of shots that didn't hit their target.

#2 To explain the Hades, I would like to assume that Alpha 1 did not destroy the Hades single handedly, and made the jump to Deneb, but then, suffered a massive system failure and crash landed into the planet.

#3 As for the soldiers on the planet, that was a little harder. The soldiers that are shown are now skeletons. However, the pilot seemed a little more "intact". The only thing that could make sense was a ground battle involving Vasudans previously on the planet, as I honestly don't see Carl and his gang going down to the surface (plus, that still wouldn't explain why the pilot was a little more "juicy".)
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The GTVA sure knows how to launch feint attacks. You have the Colossus with her engines shut off, her battle group (all three ships) who apparently had problems with their weapon reactors, and a motley crew of fighters. No wonder the Bastion's escorts got decimated.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
What structures?

The clearly destroyed buildings in the background.. You know, lots and lots of twisted metal support poles

You think wreckage doesn't corrode or seperate from a ships' body?

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
The most feasible explanation I've heard is that this battle was in another part of Deneb, basically a force that encountered and delayed the Lucy before the Galatea arrived, entire 'Battle of Deneb' may have lasted for a day or so, and in the confusion that probably accompanied the Shivan's appearance, it's not certain that command are going to confirm all losses to their pilots. There's also, of course, the question of morale.

My own take on the cutscene really is that, if you have a line like 'They call us the Lost Generation...etc' and you are talking about a massive war, you really couldn't depict it better than to have hundreds of dead bodies. Basically, it was imagery to suit the dialogue.

 

Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
The most feasible explanation I've heard is that this battle was in another part of Deneb, basically a force that encountered and delayed the Lucy before the Galatea arrived, entire 'Battle of Deneb' may have lasted for a day or so, and in the confusion that probably accompanied the Shivan's appearance, it's not certain that command are going to confirm all losses to their pilots. There's also, of course, the question of morale.

My own take on the cutscene really is that, if you have a line like 'They call us the Lost Generation...etc' and you are talking about a massive war, you really couldn't depict it better than to have hundreds of dead bodies. Basically, it was imagery to suit the dialogue.

 :nod:

My attempt at explaining cutscenes:

#1 To explain why the surface of the planet was so scarred up, there was a major battle take place in orbit of the same planet. I would like to think those may be the cause of shots that didn't hit their target.

#2 To explain the Hades, I would like to assume that Alpha 1 did not destroy the Hades single handedly, and made the jump to Deneb, but then, suffered a massive system failure and crash landed into the planet.

#3 As for the soldiers on the planet, that was a little harder. The soldiers that are shown are now skeletons. However, the pilot seemed a little more "intact". The only thing that could make sense was a ground battle involving Vasudans previously on the planet, as I honestly don't see Carl and his gang going down to the surface (plus, that still wouldn't explain why the pilot was a little more "juicy".)

Explanation 2 and 3 are not in sync with the "theme" of the cutscene, which was what I was trying to say all along.  Those theories seem tailored to fit what you see around canon, not with the context of what happens in the scene.  I can see Aldo's point of view because at the beginning of "32 years later" he saw a large ship, but I didn't.  I saw what I thought was a fighter.  So, he concluded the soldiers came from the ship, I concluded they came from somewhere else, possibly a ground battle, a part of the same battle that took place in orbit.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 09:21:08 am by Freespace Freak »

 

Offline Mars

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
1: Even if a Fenris cruiser hit the ground, it would bang the ground up pretty good

2: The Hades was just a generic large ship that the third party used because they didn't know better

3:The pilot is skeletal too... don't you see the nose?

 
Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
If any cruiser hit the ground, the resulting crater would either match or rival the crater in Winslow Arizona...

    |[===---(-         
    ||
 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
Combined with toxic/radioactive fallout even small amount of capital ships falling down onto surface of a planet could result in planet becoming uninhabitable, or at best more hostile to life.

A là Honoghr...
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Offline Dysko

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
Maybe the crew has used some kind of thrusters to slow the fall of the ship. Or maybe it was a crash landing like the one that can be seen in Star Wars Episode 3.
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Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
If any cruiser hit the ground, the resulting crater would either match or rival the crater in Winslow Arizona...

Yeah, that's why I always thought it was just a small fighter, not a gigantic ship or something.

Quote
3:The pilot is skeletal too... don't you see the nose?

Um, not quite sure what your point is with this one, Mars.  Care to explain where you were going with this?

Quote
The cutscene text said it was Battle of Deneb (senior), and AFAIK there were no other Demon class destroyers in that particular battle... or were there?  :nervous:

Yes there was, actually.  The Eva.  However, as the ship that got destroyed in the cutscene wasn't the Galatea, the Demon in that cutscene also could have been something other than the Eva.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
The Tantalus?

First of all,are you sure that it was the Galatea?

 
Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
the problem with the fighter theory is that a crater could only be created if the fighter dived STRAIGHT at the planet, then exploded...but it's more likely that it would explode during re-entry. If it was coming in at an acute angle, there wouldn't be a crater, but a long dirt streak....can't exactly describe it well, kinda like this:



ouch...

    |[===---(-         
    ||
 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 

Offline Freespace Freak

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Re: FreeSpace era ground combat
The Tantalus?

First of all,are you sure that it was the Galatea?

The Tantalus was in Sirius, which Alpha 1 and the Bastion engaged just before entering Delta Serpentis.  This is the famous Clash of the Titans mission.

The Eva was destroyed by Alpha 1 and company in Deneb.  There are two missions for the battle of Deneb in the Main FS1 Campaign, the first mission is to destroy the Eva, and then you have the "incoming message" sequence and you jump in to help defend the Galatea's escape pods as they evacuate.  The Lucifer jumps in during the mission and destroyes the Galatea.

However, :v: mentioned that the Orion seen in this cutscene being pulverized by the Lucifer is not the Galatea.  I would also suspect that the Demon seen in the cutscene is also probably not the Eva, although it very well could be.

Quote
the problem with the fighter theory is that a crater could only be created if the fighter dived STRAIGHT at the planet, then exploded...but it's more likely that it would explode during re-entry. If it was coming in at an acute angle, there wouldn't be a crater, but a long dirt streak....can't exactly describe it well, kinda like this:

Exactly right, and a very big ship would probably leave a crater at no matter what angle it hit the ground.  The very fact that there doesn't appear to be a crater made me think the ship was small, and thus was a fighter, not a big huge cruiser or destroyer.  Which is why I didn't think "oh, those soldiers must have come from that ship" because I thought at most, that ship would have only held two people.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 03:23:05 pm by Freespace Freak »