[aldo_14]

Ok, after some time messing with the models:

I CAN get them grouped out, and working for the exporter.  I think



That look about right?

Note that I haven't done LODs, docking points/paths or debris yet.

I'll get to that in a minute.

Here's some texturing questions:

1. If it has textures already applied, in the initial model I import, how do I *remove* all textures, as well as their UVmap, in 3dsmax7?
There should be a UVW remove tool in the, er, tools panel

2. Once I remove them, is it still ok to put that model into lithunwrap, or will that trash my grouping setup?  I have someone else doing texturing, because I think I suck at it    I am NOT an artist, by any means.
You should uv it in max, it's a far better tool

EDIT: OR, would it be better to open a *pof* in lithunwrap, and do it that way?

3. When I do debris, LODs - do they go onto the same texture map, or do they need their own?
Debris, LODs use whatever texture map is assigned to them. Generally speaking, it's best to give LODs a smaller texture map (i.e. to use less texture memory) and debris a possibly smaller and definately altered texture map (i.e. to look like debris; scorched, burnt, etc)

Here's some modeling questions:

1. Can someone step me through the process they use to create debris?  (I'm needing pretty basic info, I think.  I can't figure it out.)
Don't have the time to properly step through, but it's simple; my tactic is to get the original model, and break it up.  That is, copy it, and weld chunks together (i.e. 'slice'), then UV map the new open face (the 'cut' face) to have a debris texture.  Usually I include the debris texture as part of the overall debris texture map.

2. When you create LODs (I actually HAVE several LODs of every ship, I just need to import them), they each have their own texture, correct?
Usually, yes (see above)

Just a few Q's to start me again.  Thank you, very much, for your answers.  Remember, I'm not the greatest modeler - in fact, I'm practically a newbie - so please... be gentle?

[Kieve]

1. If it has textures already applied, in the initial model I import, how do I *remove* all textures, as well as their UVmap, in 3dsmax7?

2. Once I remove them, is it still ok to put that model into lithunwrap, or will that trash my grouping setup?  I have someone else doing texturing, because I think I suck at it    I am NOT an artist, by any means.

EDIT: OR, would it be better to open a *pof* in lithunwrap, and do it that way?

3. When I do debris, LODs - do they go onto the same texture map, or do they need their own?

Here's some modeling questions:

1. Can someone step me through the process they use to create debris?  (I'm needing pretty basic info, I think.  I can't figure it out.)

2. When you create LODs (I actually HAVE several LODs of every ship, I just need to import them), they each have their own texture, correct?

Max Q's
(I have Max 5, so I can't guarentee this is perfectly accurate)
1. To remove texture, open up your materials editor and click on the diffuse map (or any other maps you're using with TX filenames) and that should open up a sub-menu for the TX part. Now on the top-right of the menu, just below the materials window, you'll see a button labeled "Bitmap" - pop that one open and "NONE" should be the first choice of many in the new menu.
Option one is to simply select that and it'll clear out the texture entry from the material. Alternately, you can drag "NONE" onto the model itself - I don't know if that wipes the texture, or the whole material.

As for removing UVMapping, I don't recommend it but if you wanted to, try the "Unwrap UVW" Modifier, hit the Edit button, and select all verts, then delete them and collapse the whole thing.

2. I don't use Lithunwrap, but my vote is the same as aldo's - use UVMapping in Max, it's simpler that way.

3. For texture, you should use .DDS format if at all possible - your LOD can re-use the same texture and the mipmapping in the .DDS will take care of your LOD for you.

Modeling Q's
1. Probably your best bet is to copy your detail-0 model, use "slice" modifier, and extrude edges to close up the holes. Maybe toy with the vertexes a little bit so your wreckage looks warped and deformed. Personally, I suggest using the original TX for the original surfaces and a wreckage TX for the extruded patch-overs.
(To extrude edges, select your model and on the modifier tab, choose "Edge" - a little ways down you'll see an Extrude option - from there, just weld vertices as necessary to patch up any gaps.)

2. Not if you're using .DDS textures. As I stated before, the mipmapping can handle the texture LOD for you.
Personally, I recommend looking for the program DTXBmp - it's about the simplest, easiest tool I've encountered for working with .DDS textures.

[Col. Fishguts]

2. When you create LODs (I actually HAVE several LODs of every ship, I just need to import them), they each have their own texture, correct?

Usually, yes (see above)

Actually since mipmapping is now working as it should, it should be more efficient to have all LODs use the same map. (if I've understood Taylor correctly, that is)

[RazorsKiss]

Sorry I haven't got back to you about this.

Since I posted last, I tried to use the models, as originally textured - I got the ship imported (as stepped through by Turey in my my other thread), and it imported - HOWEVER - because, as originally modeled by the Tach guys, it has ~25 textures, it wouldn't work.  So... it looks like we'll have to re-texture them. 

Which was my alternate plan, as seen by the questions I asked above  

So, here's another dumb question: What, exactly, is a UVmap?

It *looks* like it's just a selection of faces, which are *assigned* a specific area on a one-piece map, or an individual texture.

So, due to my ignorance of the process of uvmapping, I guess my second question is: Once you have the uvmap "complete" - what tells the program what is what, on a .dds texture, and what is the best way to "complete" one? 

On Scooby's tutorial, it shows the uvmap "laid on" the underlying texture file - how does that become the "map", and more than just the image with lines laid on it, once "painted" in photoshop?  When you export into .dds, from photoshop?  I saw that there's a special exporter plugin for Max that outputs a black & white image of your map, so that's how you get it into photoshop. 

When I looked at one of my maps, in lith, it looked like a massive spiderweb.  Is that because it's ~25 maps, or because it's just messy that way? Third question - the uvmap, because it is referencing 25+ textures - is useless, at this point, isn't it? 

Fourth - related to "what is the best way to complete a uvmap" - how do you go about, exactly, completing one?  Please, please, answer this one with crayon?  I'm really, really, a newbie at this.  Do you select a group of faces, and call it something in particular, in one of max's menus, or what?

[Please reference Turey's answers in the other thread for how to explain things to me - I'm very visual! (and dense, it seems )]

If it would be easier, my im info should is listed.

[Kieve]

Okay, let's hit the preliminary Q's first:

It *looks* like it's just a selection of faces, which are *assigned* a specific area on a one-piece map, or an individual texture.

Yep, that's really about all there is to it.

Once you have the uvmap "complete" - what tells the program what is what, on a .dds texture, and what is the best way to "complete" one?

Well, one thing you should know (although it might confuse you more) is that UVMaps aren't the same as pixel maps. UVWs are the equivalent of XYZ, except they work on a different scale - where you might make a map that is 256x256, or 512x1024, the UVmap simply translates from 0.0 - 1.0 (or more, in the case of repeating/tiling textures). To put it another way, your UVMap stretches. (And let's just forget about the W coordinate for now - as far as I've ever seen, it doesn't seem to have any bearing on a 2D planar map.)

These are two separate ways of displaying the same UVMap - in this case, the one for the fuselage of my Tigris.
On the left, you see a compressed 256x512 size, on the right a full 512x512. In BOTH cases, the green dot represents (0.0,0.0) U,V coordinates, and the orange (1.0,1.0). It's just a matter of scaling (think of it like percentages, that might be easier - 0.0 is "0% ->Right" and .5 would be halfway over, or "50% ->Right"; for the V scale, 50% up). These will automatically scale and stretch themselves to the size of the map applied, so that they cover 100% of the texture map you use.
"What is the best way to complete one?" In Max, it's probably selective use of the "UVW Map" and "Unwrap UV" modifier tools - UVWMap will help you get a basic map, and then you can use Unwrap UV for fine-tuning, as I'll show in the following.

how does that become the "map", and more than just the image with lines laid on it, once "painted" in photoshop?  When you export into .dds, from photoshop?  I saw that there's a special exporter plugin for Max that outputs a black & white image of your map, so that's how you get it into photoshop.

I usually just take a screenshot from Unwrap UV's edit window. The darker-blue line shows you the boundaries of the 0.0-1.0 range - any higher or lower than that, and you begin tiling (a map from, say [-0.5,0.0] to [0.0, 0.5] is the same as a map from [0.5,0] to [1.0,0.5] - the map simply repeates beyond those boundaries). As for the "How" of it - all you have to do is open your materials editor and select your texture/apply the map & material to your model. I won't go into detail on that here, since it's a simple processess and your Max help file should cover it. Just search for Materials Editor and Applying Texture.

When I looked at one of my maps, in lith, it looked like a massive spiderweb.  Is that because it's ~25 maps, or because it's just messy that way? Third question - the uvmap, because it is referencing 25+ textures - is useless, at this point, isn't it?

The spiderweb is probably the result of many different sections of mapping overlaying each other. I showed you the map for my fuselage, but if you saw the ENTIRE UVmap, for all sections, it would look the same way.

The trick here is to either move all the mapped sections around so they don't "overlap" or to use different mapping channels (I've been doing the latter - more on "Multi Materials" and mapping channels can be found in your Max user reference/help files).
You shouldn't need 25+ maps - at most, seven or eight should cut it, and that's counting Shine and Glow extras. For now, it's probably best to focus on the basics...

And to answer the fourth Q...

[Kieve]

Fourth - related to "what is the best way to complete a uvmap" - how do you go about, exactly, completing one?  Please, please, answer this one with crayon?  I'm really, really, a newbie at this.  Do you select a group of faces, and call it something in particular, in one of max's menus, or what?

Let the visuals begin...

Modify Tab
Drop-Down menu -> Select UVW Map or Unwrap UVW
-UVW Map will perform operations on the mesh as a whole - or if you select specific faces/polys and [then] choose the modifier, it will do so only on the specific items. That's the quick way to get a basic outline of your model into a UVMap - for instance, select only the right faces of your model:

-Then add a UVW Map (this example shows "Planar", aligned to X axis (note the orange "Gizmo" outline around the ship showing the plane of TX'ing:

-Finally, I temporarily add an Unwrap UVW and hit Edit to see what the UVMapping looks like.


By selecting various faces and shuffling them around, you can quickly map your entire ship - unless you're as precise and tedious about it as I am >.<;

Now for the tweaking. I'm going back to my original Tigris map for this, since I noticed an area of the hull that needed a slight adjustment:

Another Unwrap UVW modifier... Select the faces you need, then,

Planar Map - This does essentially the same thing as UVW Map's "Planar" setting - UVWMap should be used for large sections, spherical or cylindrical objects, or other items that don't lend themselves to small planar edits like this.
Once Planar is done, hit Edit.

I painted green over the lines to show you what was "planarized" but it can be a little tough to see at first without them. Fortunately, the Edit UVW window has that nice yellow-box tool - you can use it to move the new pieces off everything else and look at them better, turn them, scale them - whatever you need to do. My advice there is just to play around a little until you get the hang of it, as for many MANY instances the yellow-box is your friend.

Note the the yellow-selected button under the "Select" menu - that's the yellow-box tool. But, the real point of this image is to answer a previous question - "how does that become the "map", and more than just the image with lines laid on it, once "painted" in photoshop?"
See the box I've highlighted in red? When selected (lower-right) it displays the texture map you've applied to your model. For initial Texture creation, follow Scoob's tutorial, but if you need to tweak something, this can help you see exactly how the UVWs are reading your texture map.

Here, I've scaled down those planes to fit their correct section. A little vertex-welding and shifting later, and I've fixed some of the horrible pulling that was happening with that section. The "blurry" white line across the face is from the [texture] I should note - not the UVMap. I painted an image of the UVMap onto my texture in photoshop so I could see how the faces were being displayed... Doing this first sometimes helps point out areas where the texture is stretching, warping, or deforming.

Hope that helps. ^.^

[RazorsKiss]

That's a very nicely done tutorial.

Yes, it did help me understand what all of that stuff means, somewhat, thank you very much

[RazorsKiss]

King-sized kudos to nuke!

He took the time to walk me completely through one of my gimped 25 texture ships, and worked me up to baking them down to a single texture with render-to-texture.

This community is absolutely unreal.  You rock, nuke.

I may even start making some visible progress soon!