[BlackDove]

Don't you mean "any way they're paid off to choose"?

[Mr. Vega]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was true; the USBush wanted war with Iraq, period. He even lied to america to get it

fixed

296-133 in favour of war. Sorry Kazan, but the American people (via their elected deputies) made it clear that theywanted the war.

I don't think so. Aforementioned elected deputies can vote any way they choose, even if it goes against what every single one of their constituency wants.

  Thus the reason Bobboau brought up the 70%.

[IceFire]

Same thing happened to Japan. When they knew the bomb was coming, they wanted to surrender, of course. But the bomb needed a live testing stage on humans and general urban environment so they dropped two, to establish scientific certainties.

This was just a smaller scale colonial move. After all, Saddam was the US' puppet for many years, if not all of them.

I've heard that point of view expressed but its been mostly quashed.  The Japanese leadership had voices of dissent from 1944 onwards...some in power were expressing the desire to seek an end to the hostilities.  American firebombing did far more damage to Japan's cities than either atomic bomb did.  The first atomic bomb was basically the straw that broke the camels back in the Japanese leadership...but it took time to make the changes. By the time of the second atomic bomb the Emperor stepped in and that was the end.  Its been said that conventional firebombs would probably have done the same thing...but those were just as devastating if not moreso.  So it was a catch 22 really.  Everyone talks about the two atomic bombs when the firebomb raids were far more costly in lives overall.

Anyways, slightly off topic...I'm not surprised about this little revelation although I don't think it specifically changes anything.  Its generally not the greatest of ideas to capitulate at the very last second as the gears of war are already in motion.  If the situation had truly been that Saddam had WMD and that the invasion needed to be carried out in a timely fashion...then such a capitulation would be seen as stalling for more time...and when you're ready to go like that, the worst thing you can do is stand down.

On the other hand...given that the situation on the inside was more of a agenda based thing...its something of an outrage that efforts could not be made.  Basically I think they decided that Iraq was a threat that needed to be taken out, war on terror or not, and the war on terror just gave an added bonus in forming the language that shaped the move towards war.  I still think they could have ignored Iraq (with its obvious lack of WMD) and really focused on rebuilding Afganistan and getting Osama.

[NGTM-1R]

The Japanese were making noises about surrender, but unless they could obtain a promise to retain the Emperor (unconditional surrender may not have given them that) they intended to fight to the last. The retention of the Imperial throne was a very big deal; at that time it was understood that one's loyalty to the Emperor was directly linked to one's very claim to be Japanese. To some extent that's still true.

[Kazan]

Bobboau: oh

296-133 in favour of war. Sorry Kazan, but the American people (via their elected deputies) made it clear that theywanted the war.

that doesn't contradict what i said - that is the RESULTANT of what i said.  The entire "bush lied" thing.. you know where he presented CIA reports that were doctored - kept the half that said "so-and-so thinks saddam has X" and removed the half that says "but we don't think so becauze of a,b,c"

[Inquisitor]

There was something out at the time that indicated he was making some noises about acquiescing to the US deamnds. It was widely regarded as a ploy to stave off the invasion. Kinda like his turning over some million pages of documents to respond to the UN request. So, as the world comes to an end, I agree with an0n's assessment.

The guy was a ****nut. The only thing good to come out of this disaster is he gets the short rope.

Anywho, nothing new, just now (more) confirmed. Curious as to why this is being seen as a revelation. I'd rather talk about how we were lied to about the intelligence, that has meat on it. This doesn't.

Vote tomorrow.