[Kosh]

http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/11/05/0840227.shtml


Evolution @ work people.......

[Taristin]

EVOLUTION IS A LIE FROM THE DEVIL!

[Iron Wolf]

EVOLUTION IS A LIE FROM THE DEVIL!

Praise Jesus!

[Turambar]

wow, the original story is on fox news, i'm surprised its even up there.

[Mefustae]

That's because only the most vehemently indoctrinated dullards of the world would ignore this for what it is; damn interesting stuff!

[Bobboau]

well from the perspective of someone who doesn't accept evolution this probably won't do anything for them.

[Mefustae]

Well **** them, then.

[Bobboau]

they'd be all like [poorly done girl voice]oh, well doesn't that mean that they are deevolutioning and why didn't every dolphin in the world have this obvius step twards being human and thus the penicle of God's creation at the same time...[/poorly done girl voice] und ****...

[Nuke]

you can observe evolution if you ever had to put up with a pest infestation. ive never relied on an exterminator, they never get the job done right. anyway after your first two attacks on whatever pest youre killing, they will apear to vaninsh, and by the third wavethe critters will take twice as much poison to kill. no matter the bug or rodent, you will always kill the weakest leaving only the strongest to breed. you get around this by rotating your poisons. they cant all be immune to the same thing.leave as few survivors as possilble, forcing them to inbread helps **** with their gene pool.

[vyper]

When they start singing so long and thanks for all the fish, call me...

Seriously though, this is very very cool. I wonder what an early Dolphin, or it's land-based predecessor would've looked like.

[aldo_14]

When they start singing so long and thanks for all the fish, call me...

Seriously though, this is very very cool. I wonder what an early Dolphin, or it's land-based predecessor would've looked like.

Pakicetus is apparently one of the earliest known cetacean ancestors, due to having a similar ear canal;

[vyper]

It's a giant ****ing rat.

[Sandwich]

Just pointing out the obvious possible flaw in this conclusion, as any good creationist would do... How come the dolphin is evolution, while this poor fella is/was a mutation?

[vyper]

The part where he died gives the answer away.

[Sandwich]

So a mutation that a living being doesn't die from is evolution? Hmm, you're gonna have to try harder to convince me.

[karajorma]

Because this dolphin is a mutation. Nothing more.

The difference here though is what the mutation was. In the case of the chick that's obviously a control gene mutation. The scientists involved in this case don't seem to think the same thing has happened here.

[aldo_14]

Just pointing out the obvious possible flaw in this conclusion, as any good creationist would do... How come the dolphin is evolution, while this poor fella is/was a mutation?

Because that mutation gave no survival or procreational advantage leading to its propagation across a species.

[vyper]

You're deliberately being think as two short planks Sarnie, don't do that with me.

My point was that in of itself, an individual mutation is not necessarily an evolutionary step - it may be due to outside influences such as unusual NBC exposure, etc, or extreme conditions during mating/gestation. Besides which, evolutionary steps are generally much smaller and discrete.

Now, I don't have the time or interest to pull up page after page of the wiki or google searches to offer you proof that evolution exists or that your God does or doesn't either, so I'll leave that to the more prepared members like aldo (you're up lad). Besides, if you're a creationist you're basing your opinion on religious belief, and nothing I can say will change your mind.

[Herra Tohtori]

I love it how everyone seems to be gladly jumping into the train on rails towards another evolution debate...


Do we know for sure that the four-legged chick was caused by a mutation in a control gene?

It could've been simple conjoined twins.


Essentially, evolution cosists of mutations. There are harmful, neutral and useful mutations. Harmful mutations don't generally get a chance to spread in population, while useful mutations give a better chance to stay alive and procreate. Neutral mutations just hang along, and they usually aren't noticed until they become either harmful or useful.

If the chick was a mutation, it was arguably a harmful one - hence it died away.

Dolphin having extra pair of fins could be either useful or neutral mutation. Most likely it was neutral for the dolphin - the fact that he or she was caught is more related to chance.

All mutations are part of evolution process. Evolution process doesn't actually touch individuals - individuals don't evolve, the species does.


By the way. Statistically, it is extremely unlikely that the only four-finned dolphin in the world was caught. There are others most likely like this one. And I don't think it's as much as a mutation bringing out old traits. It's more like the fact that dolphins might have lost their "legs" later than is generally thought. Perhaps (read: likely) there is a part in dolphin population that still has two extra fins.

[aldo_14]

IMO the issue as to whether the chicken was a mutation is irrelevant, it's more important to highlight the importance of selection in this.  Too often people - thanks to the creationist/ID misinformation campaigns - seem to make the mistake of viewing evolution as directed or random, when in reality it's mutation that is random, and evolution is deterministic (natural and sexual selection).

 It's worth noting that, IIRC, there tends to be a lot of 'junk' DNA in all animals; essentially inactive (or at least not active in a detected way) DNA strands which often include or indicate 'discarded' genes from earlier in the genetic evolution of the species (I think I have a magazine article on this at home, which I'll try and dig out after work) - it's most likely, it seems, that in this case the dolphin had a mutation which re-asserted/re-built the recessed/corrupted DNA for the additional fins.