[Titan]

Dunno if anyone noticed this, but GTVA would be F***in' dead if it weren't for the NTF. Fighting the rebels gave the GTVA expierience to defend from the Shivans in the battle of Cappella. You gotta admit i'm right.   

[Dysko]

But without the NTF the NTC Trinity would have never activated the Knossos, preventing the 2nd Shivan Incursion.

But I think you're right... GTA/GTVA was lucky to be always fighting a war when the Shivan arrived, otherwise "activating" the Terran/Allied war machine would have been extremely long.

[Ulala]

What of all the resources and lives spent on the war with Bosch instead of being able to defend against the Shivans?  

[Flipside]

And the fact I'm guesstimating about 25% of the Terran war machine was fighting against the GTVA instead of against the Shivans.

[Shade]

I see the Colossus as well as the introduction of new advanced ship designs like the Deimos (all predating the NTF) as signs that the GTVA was already maintaining a war footing prior to the NTF insurgency. Without it, they'd just have had far more ships and resources with which to fight back. They had not forgotten the Shivans.

Not to mention, you know, not having to fight at all if not for the NTF, since the portal would not have been activated.

[Trac3R]

Dunno if anyone noticed this, but GTVA would be F***in' dead if it weren't for the NTF. Fighting the rebels gave the GTVA expierience to defend from the Shivans in the battle of Cappella. You gotta admit i'm right.   

Why does this all remind me of WC4 "price of freedom"?
Are you some kind of Admiral Tolwyn that tries to strenghten his species in fighting the weak ones?

[Polpolion]

There is a grammar error in the title. It should be "NTF did well".


[/grammar nazi]

[Titan]

The point i was trying to make was the GTVA would have been dead if the Shivans were gonna come regardless because they would not have had time to mobilize under the onslaught.

[aldo_14]

The NTF took a shedload of GTVA resources, caused the death of thousands of civillians in a genocidal war that strained unity and co-operation between the Terrans and Vasudans, resulted in major ongoing engagements on multiple fronts soaking up resources, prevented a 'single front' defense, possibly led to the leaking of critical information (via Bosch) about GTVA defenses (even assuming it's coincidental his abduction came right before the Sathani advanced), and opened the Knossos allowing the Shivans to attack.  And, arguably, the subspace-level conflict could be what enticed the Shivans anyways.  Not to mention that it's scarcely implausible that sans-NTF opening the Knossos it may have taken the Shivans many more years (if they were even interested) to find a route to GTVA space - and those years are time for technological advancement i.e. weapons (as the beam, flak, etc cannon show that the defeat of Shivans didn't stop progress).

War destroys resources - it doesn't create them.  It kills more experienced soldiers than it creates.  No general in history has desired to fight on two fronts.

[Snail]

I'm telling your dad you sweared.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Anyway, I agree with Aldo, any war is human failure (unless its against some xenocidal aliens, of course).

[Titan]

You mean shivans, right? *INITIATING THOUGHT TRANSLATER> {man......of course it's the shivans... big 'duh' moment......} <THOUGHT TRANSLATOR SHUTTING DOWN* 

[Snail]

Or an expansionist super empire spanning hundreds of worlds (Ancients).

[Quest_techie]

peacetime military ftl

[Flipside]

Normally I'd agree, but there are two major factors contributing to this, firstly, the GTVA knew that the Shivans would be back, the Colossus' construction began long before the NTF rebellion from what I am aware of. Secondly, as has been stated before, the second Shivan incursion was initiated by the NTF, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

Consider the losses sustained by both sides during the Rebellion. How many ships were destroyed when Admiral Koth decimated the Terran 6th(?) Fleet, or the Colossus ground its way through the NTF Fleet. For every kill there was a loss of a ship of the line, as well as thousands of service men and women.

The GTVA was already gearing up for War before the Rebellion started. True, the war allowed the GTVA to test and hone its weapons and personnel before the Shivans arrived, but I suspect that the losses incurred far outweigh the gains in this case.

[aldo_14]

peacetime military ftl

Peacetime military only exists to survive the first wave of an attack, anyways.  After that it becomes wartime military.

[wtf_cl0vvn]

With the GTVA spanning such a wide expanse of space, a sizeable active fleet is needed simply for policing and security.

Just as a police force (or militia) is necessary for cutting down crime on land and a navy and airforce are necessary for cutting down on piracy and smuggling, the GTVA would require all fleets to maintain a pretty good level of combat readiness.

In space im guessing the requirements are more taxing. Even old Valkyries, Apollos, and maybe some hercs could do serious damage unless their targets were protected by a superior force. Superior because an equal force would take casualties, a fighter or two would slip through and kill lots of civvies (only one hull breach is necessary to kill pretty much everyone on the deck in space)...etc.

That, and to simply maintain a military deterrent on local governments. after the chaos of reconstruction (im assuming chaos existed), terrans would want a powerful deterrent in place to stop regional and local skirmishes.

A single Fenris, allowed to get into orbit, could do serious devastation to a city with an orbital bombardment, not to mention if the rest of the local defense forces could do bombardments too.

Therefore, the GTVA would keep a strong military in order to quell all of these possible conflicts. SO they would have been reasonably ready for the Shivan advance (should it have come), without having to take all of the losses from the NTF rebellion.

remember, they lost 75% of the 6th fleet in Epsilon Pegasi from Adm. Koth's attack. Thats 75% that could have been used to, say, protect the Capellan exodus convoys. Wouldnt YOU have liked an Aeolus, or at least a Leviathan or Fenris on the Exodus mission?

[NGTM-1R]

It kills more experienced soldiers than it creates.

Then how did they get experienced?

The NTF conflict would have been doubly damaging in that it turned tactical thought away from the avenues that had previously and would again have proved effective against the Shivans.

[wtf_cl0vvn]

They get experienced by fighting pirates and overzealous regional govts. in police actions.

thats what i say.

[Goober5000]

There is a grammar error in the title. It should be "NTF did well".

[/grammar nazi]

Actually, the sentence works both ways.  "NTF did good" works if you interpret "good" as a collective adjective, as in "do good to one another".  "NTF did well", on the other hand, simply means they fought well, which we all know already.

Wouldnt YOU have liked an Aeolus, or at least a Leviathan or Fenris on the Exodus mission?

Dude, they give you a freaking Sobek.  Don't be greedy.  Or are you one of those noobs who get their entire capship support wiped out in the first two minutes?

[wtf_cl0vvn]

The Sobek isnt supposed to last forever...its pretty much spent fighting off the Moloch and the waves of shivan bombers.


besides, if you exert yourself defending the nebtuu, some shivan bomber will target the convoy and sneeze on it. causing it to explode in a spectacular shower of fire and civvy guts.







cmon, you KNOW you want an aeolus with you on every escort mission...dont deny it. *nudgenudge*