[IceFire]

there is a reason the f-117 looks so unusual and has such unstable flight characteristics, there is also a reason it has such an incredibly small radar profile <well, several really> there is a reason the f-16 has such a large radar signature and flys in the manner it does, design doctrine

BTW: According to the experts the F-117 has a larger radar profile than the B-2, F-22 and F-35.

This whole thing is silly...the British jointly developed the F-35 from the start.  If anyone should have access to the software then it should be them.

[Dysko]

BTW: According to the experts the F-117 has a larger radar profile than the B-2, F-22 and F-35.

I've read that the F-22 and the B-2 are much "stealthier" than the F-117 due to their curved surfaces, but I read also that the F-35 is only slightly stealthier than the B-1 (another "low observability" aircraft).

[an0n]

I dunno why someone doesn't design an aircraft that's covered in chrome and bells and whistles and just lights the entire ****ing RADAR spectrum up like a Christmas tree.

Try getting accurate readings when there's 15 wings of those ****ers moving towards your population centers.

[vyper]

* vyper just sighs and laments the fall of Britain's power

[Mefustae]

* vyper just sighs and laments the fall of Britain's power

Where have you been? British "power" has been going happily around the U-bend since the turn of the 20th.

To remedy this; who's up for going back in time and giving nuclear weapons to the British Empire at its height?

[vyper]

* vyper just sighs and laments the fall of Britain's power

Where have you been? British "power" has been going happily around the U-bend since the turn of the 20th.

To remedy this; who's up for going back in time and giving nuclear weapons to the British Empire at its height?

Actually I reckon it hit rock bottom after the disaster with the ERM...

[Mefustae]

What, Black Wednesday?

[vyper]

The-day-John-Major-ended-his-career.

[Janos]

The-day-John-Major-ended-his-career.

THATCHER is a disco ball

[Fineus]

Meh, John Major was an idiot. Blair is an idiot. We need a strong leader who's more concerned with serving Britains own interests rather than giving a damn about what everyone else wants to turn Britain into.

The problem being that such a strong leader as one who could make that happen could easily use the publics desire to turn Britain into something powerful and make the country into even more of a Big Brother nation than it is now - just a more powerful version thereof.

Unfortunately right now we seem to be Americas lap-dog and half hearted dancing around the idea of being involved with Europe because we share waters with the area. The problem with that is that both the US and Europe are telling (Britain) what to do and we're happily obliging so as not to piss anyone off... which is great if you fancy rolling over and being politically dominated by other countries but absolutely terrible if you actually live here.

God save the queen? God save her nation more like...

(Once again I apologise for the outburst.. I do hate my country, you can tell.)

[Nuke]

BTW: According to the experts the F-117 has a larger radar profile than the B-2, F-22 and F-35.

I've read that the F-22 and the B-2 are much "stealthier" than the F-117 due to their curved surfaces, but I read also that the F-35 is only slightly stealthier than the B-1 (another "low observability" aircraft).

the f117 was the first combat stealth aircraft. there were some minor stealth features on the sr-71, however they were secondary to its speed. it wasnt till the f117 that stealth was the primary purpose or an aircraft. i personally dont know why we use them, theyre small, slow weak, ****ty handeling, and have a tiny payload. none the less it was a proof of concept for stealth.

now the f117 was developed back in the 70s, computing power was pathetic. only with the rise in computing power was it possible to calculate every milimeter of surface area and which direction it should face. we also had the manufacturing capability to presisely lay composite in the way the design called for. and out of that we got the b2.

now the difference between low observability aircraft and stealth aircraft is more a matter of tactics than actual capability. a stealth aircraft is designed to avoid detection at all cost. its tactics are specifically designed for this. a low observability aircraft is designed to give it an advantage in combat (or whatever other misssion it may be designed for), so that it may get the first shot. now the actual radar cross sections of the planes are classified, noone on this board knows what they are and none of us are qualified to make judgments on which plane is stealthyer. we can only make assumptions.

[Rictor]

Meh, John Major was an idiot. Blair is an idiot. We need a strong leader who's more concerned with serving Britains own interests rather than giving a damn about what everyone else wants to turn Britain into.

(should have seen that coming, what with your avatar and all)

[Fineus]

The problem being that such a strong leader as one who could make that happen could easily use the publics desire to turn Britain into something powerful and make the country into even more of a Big Brother nation than it is now - just a more powerful version thereof.

I did

[Flipside]

Heh, the problem is that 'strong' is always viewed as being in the eyes of the beholder, in this case, other countries. We need a Prime Minister who is 'strong' enough to accept the fact that we aren't an Empire any more, whilst we are by no means a poor country, and no offence intended to our American members, but walking along and copying the Biggest kid on the Block is not doing either our reputation, nor our country in general any good. We have housing and healthcare problems, the tabloids coming up with new prejudices every day etc, our law system is archaic in some senses and ultra PC in others. The system needs a shake up, and, quite frankly, strong is not about following the herd, strong is about finding a way that works for us.

[Bobboau]

I can totally respect that, but I'd think of it more like the biggest kid on the block owning you bigtime, but that's just me.

[NGTM-1R]

There was an article on this in this month's Proceedings which put a different spin on it. The US won't turn over the source code because the code would then be accessible to EU members, not all of whom have proved entirely stable/trustworthy/friendly. Several Eastern European countries were mentioned by name, as was Turkey (which isn't a member but wants to be). The US wants assurances that the UK will keep the code to themselves first, which the UK is not willing to give for fear of pissing off the rest of Europe.

It's vaguely amusing in the abstract when you consider Spain was willing to give assurances on the subject when they expressed interest in possibly acquiring JSFs for the Princpe de Asturias. No word yet on whether the Spanish intend to actually do so, they're just considering it.

So yes, Kal is essentially correct; Mr. Blair is afraid too much of pissing off the rest of the world to properly pursue British interests.

[Fineus]

Actually from your first paragraph it's even worse than I thought.

We (as a country) have actually managed to put ourselves in a position where whatever we decide to do, we'll end up upsetting someone. Europe wants our allegience and so does America - and there are member countries of both that don't trust eachother. So the upshot is we bend over backwards for both (at our own expense) but ultimately still come out the bad guys as we have to choose *a* direction sooner or later and that will inevitably end up upsetting whoever we don't side with... the only other option would be to sit on the fence, but that'd make us untrustworthy to both sides as there's no garuntee we'd support them on other issues.

[Unknown Target]

The UK basically needs to choose goals for itself, then do what it takes to reach those goals. It also needs to learn how to say no to some things, and yes to others (in relation to both the EU and the US).

[Nuclear1]

Actually from your first paragraph it's even worse than I thought.

We (as a country) have actually managed to put ourselves in a position where whatever we decide to do, we'll end up upsetting someone. Europe wants our allegience and so does America - and there are member countries of both that don't trust eachother. So the upshot is we bend over backwards for both (at our own expense) but ultimately still come out the bad guys as we have to choose *a* direction sooner or later and that will inevitably end up upsetting whoever we don't side with... the only other option would be to sit on the fence, but that'd make us untrustworthy to both sides as there's no garuntee we'd support them on other issues.

51st state FTW.

[Bobboau]

Either the 51st American state or the 51st European state (so to speak).

if your not going to go after power for your selves, your going to have to make alliances with someone who does, so you have three options, join the bigger closer empire, the further more powerful empire, or make your own empire.

which is it going to be?