Poll

Who would win in a galactic war of Covenant and Empire?

The Covenant
9 (20%)
The Galactic Empire
36 (80%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire  (Read 18406 times)

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Offline Metius

  • 22
The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
In addition to the poll, I'm going to roll this out in one of those face-off type things.

Overall Size:

Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands

Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft

Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one

Years in Existence:

Covenant- Eons upon eons of history

Empire - Two whole decades

Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think

Best Space Machine:

Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city

Empire - The Death Star

Winner - Empire.  Come, on, seriously.

Ground Vehicles:

Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs

Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs

Winner - Empire.  Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.

Infantry Units:

Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes

Empire - Stormtroopers.  LOTS of Stormtroopers

Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.

Biggest Blunder:

Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring

Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon

Winner - Tie.  They're both retarded in that sense.

Evil Leader:

Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey

Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.

Winner - Empire.  We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.

Coolest Warrior:

Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.

Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.

Winner - Empire.  Darth will always win.

And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!

What do you think?  Please share your thoughts.

 

Offline Kaboodles

  • 26
  • Kill the meat. Save the metal.
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Ugh...

I remember someone linking to a thread in the Gamespot forums about Shivans vs Covenant.  It was generally agreed that arguments like these are rather pointless.

In any case, your arguments are rather silly.  You can't fault the Covenant for not being able to kill MC.  He's just that badass.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Well, from a purely practical standpoint, most Imperial ships outmass their Covenant equivalents by a good margin, which means they'll take a bit to kill. I'd have to get out my copy of Fall of Reach to get a feel for Covenant engagement ranges, but IIRC they are comfortable at much greater ranges.
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Offline Kaboodles

  • 26
  • Kill the meat. Save the metal.
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Well you could always take out the shield generators and crash a small fighter into the bridge.  :D

 

Offline Taristin

  • Snipes
  • 213
  • BlueScalie
    • Skelkwank Shipyards
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Giving wins to the empire just because is lame :p
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Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Ah, but who would win in a fight between the Reavers from Serenity/Firefly and a small mutant avocado armed with a knife?

Hmmm?

HMMMMMMMM?

 

Offline redsniper

  • 211
  • Aim for the Top!
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Giving wins to the empire just because is lame :p
Oh come on, we all know that the Empire is one of the most awesome organizations of any sci-fi universe. The main reason that Tie Fighter is so great is the fact that you get to fight for them. ;7
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
In addition to the poll, I'm going to roll this out in one of those face-off type things.

Overall Size:

Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands

Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft

Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one


Actually, Galactic Empire at its peak of power ruled an entire galaxy. The Covenant would have to rule several galaxies to beat them. I think the Galactic Empire takes this one.


Quote
Years in Existence:

Covenant- Eons upon eons of history

Empire - Two whole decades

Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think


The Covenant's history is not that long AFAIK, and the Empire was a direct descendant of the Galactic Republic, which ruled (tens of) thousands of years.

Also, does this mean the age of civilization or the age of the state? The covenant civilization/culture is about as old as the Covenant itself, but the parts of the Covenant can obviously have longer histories. Empire, on the other hand, is based on much longer-lasting Galactic civilization.

The question is, does it have any importance to end result which one is older? Japan's civilization was old enough, yet they could offer no remarkable resistance when captain Perry and US Navy arrived. Same applies to China. Meh.


Quote
Best Space Machine:

Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city

Empire - The Death Star

Winner - Empire.  Come, on, seriously.

Spoiler/speculation for the Halo trailer:

Spoiler:
Well, if you don't count that the Covenant apparently have invaded Earth and have control over the Ark, which can apparently remotely detonate all the Halos left in the Milky Way, which basically means they are able to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy, the contest gets much closer. Although the Covenant might not have a clear idea what the thing does.


Quote
Ground Vehicles:

Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs

Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs

Winner - Empire.  Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.


Well, yeah. As a walking giant tank the Scarab is effectively better than AT-AT, but AT-AT is somewhat cooler, even if AT-AT can be taken down by steel wire and Scarab apparently can not.

Ghosts and scout speeders are roughly equivalent. Scout speeder wins.

Wraith and Banshee don't seem to have a direct equivalent in Imp army (meaning we haven't seen them) but anyway, I wouldn't count the Banshee as a ground device anyway. It's more of a light ground attack/air support helicopter or plane.


Quote
Infantry Units:

Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes

Empire - Stormtroopers.  LOTS of Stormtroopers

Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.


Actually they don't, it's just the Stormtrooper effect, which by the way affects the covenant almost as badly, as shown in the next paragraph (blunders). Stormtroopers are in fact an elite group within the army as far as I know. The brunt of the raw military force of the Empire are Imperial Army Troopers. Then there are Imperial Navy Troopers, but they are not part of infantry forces.

But they do have lots and lots of them. Empire wins, galactic scale gives them a lot of recruiting material.


Quote
Biggest Blunder:

Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring

Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon

Winner - Tie.  They're both retarded in that sense.


QFT.


Quote
Evil Leader:

Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey

Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.

Winner - Empire.  We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.

QFT. Unlimited Power! Which the Prophet of Truth does not possess...

Quote
Coolest Warrior:

Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.

Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.

Winner - Empire.  Darth will always win.


QFT.

Quote
And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!

What do you think?  Please share your thoughts.


In a military clash, there would be no contest. Empire would own the Covenant. However, in stability the Covenant takes the first place, even if the treason of Truth did cause a civil war within the Covenant. The Empire was short-lived and collapsed when its leaders perished, allowing the New Republic to take their place. Anyway, military-wise the Old Republic, Galactic Empire and New Republic form some kind of a contiuum. I think the military power of that combined history peaked in the Clone Wars at the time of the six movies. Sith Wars probablt caused even more military action.

Mixing universes is fun and pointless.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I wouldn't want a super-soldier to destroy my sacred ring.  At the very least I'd demand vaseline.

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Let me make a few corrections...

Quote
Overall Size:

Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands

Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft

Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one

The Empire has a fleet of 25000 Star Destroyers. That's in Canon universe. Add to that a indefinite number of support crafts, fighters, transport barges, navigation buoys, ecc.... You get the idea. That's far from the "dozens of ships". By VERY far.

Quote
Years in Existence:

Covenant- Eons upon eons of history

Empire - Two whole decades

Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think

Yes, true. Although the Star Wars Galaxy has been around for a long time too. Plus, as time passes, vast empires tend to become opulent, corrupt and generally decadent: that has happened in our history many many times. Plus, if you remember correctly, that's the very reason why the Empire was born in the first place. So, I'd say, in general, a "younger" organization is by far better: you can react faster and don't have the burden of a too spread out burocracy.

Quote
Best Space Machine:

Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city

Empire - The Death Star

Winner - Empire.  Come, on, seriously.

And then, they could build TWO of them.

Quote
Ground Vehicles:

Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs

Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs

Winner - Empire.  Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.

That's the only thing i don't like about SW. Yes, AT-ATs are a sight to fear on a battlefield (and in that they suit Moff Tarkin's Terror Doctrine). But still, blasting away a planet's resistance from orbit is far more efficient. The only reason the Empire used AT-AT in the Battle of Hoth was because Darth Vader wanted to capture prisoners. Otherwise, they would have been blasted long before that.

Quote
Infantry Units:

Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes

Empire - Stormtroopers.  LOTS of Stormtroopers

Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.

Unless you can clone them = pretty much infinite "supply".  And, last time I checked, the Stormtroopers where the elite among infantry. So, the majority of the engagements where dealt with by Marine Infantry, not by Stormtroopers.

Quote
Biggest Blunder:

Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring

Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon

Winner - Tie.  They're both retarded in that sense.

Oh well. That's because you need a story and some sort of gameplayability... Immagine Halo if the Covenant overwhelmed you 10000000/1. That wouldn't be fun, would it?
And, btw, there's one small difference. At the end of "The Empire Strikes Back", the Empire is actually WINNING against the Rebels. They are scattered off and hiding. A whole year passes before they can get back to action (in the Novelization of ROTJ, the actual time is six months, but I think we can agree that the dates we see in the movies count here). There's no such thing in Halo, at least, that I can remember. Master Chief is always on the Edge, never backing.

Quote
Evil Leader:

Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey

Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.

Winner - Empire.  We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.

Uhm. If you say so :)

Quote
Coolest Warrior:

Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.

Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.

Winner - Empire.  Darth will always win.

Oooooh yes :D

Quote
And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!

What do you think?  Please share your thoughts.

So, I'd probably say the Covenant have NO chance. Not even in a long term attrition war.

Quote
In a military clash, there would be no contest. Empire would own the Covenant. However, in stability the Covenant takes the first place, even if the treason of Truth did cause a civil war within the Covenant. The Empire was short-lived and collapsed when its leaders perished, allowing the New Republic to take their place. Anyway, military-wise the Old Republic, Galactic Empire and New Republic form some kind of a contiuum. I think the military power of that combined history peaked in the Clone Wars at the time of the six movies. Sith Wars probablt caused even more military action.
Yes, you are correct. In a such vast galaxy, empires, political organizations, corporations, nations, planets, cultures, races can come an go in the blink of an eye, without the rest even noticing. In fact, there are places where the Empire (or of the Old Republic, for that matter) is not known of (the nebula beyond Nar Shadda, as an example). The only constant in SW is, no matter how far and remote, there's always someone wagin war on some other one. An external threat would do nothing else than bring together the biggest factions so that they can repel the common foe and go back to their fighting.

Quote
Mixing universes is fun and pointless.
We all are a little bit "nerdish" around here... so who cares? :D
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 04:08:17 am by CmdKewin »
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Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
And then, they could build TWO of them.
Since we're including the Expanded Universe, make that three Death Stars [not including the Darksaber] plus dozens of smaller superlaser-carrying vessels. Not to mention a wide variety of Tarkin-inspired superweapons ranging from the World Devastators to the Sun Crusher, and lets not forget our old friend the Galaxy Gun; with the power to destroy a planet anywhere in the Galaxy without even having to go within 10,000 lightyears of it. The Covenant tactician who thought up "glassing" would have wet dreams about these weapons, and the Empire already has them, so it's pretty game-set-match if you ask me.

In a word; the Covenant's ****ed.

Now, let's move on from silly comparisons that don't make sense.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 04:49:01 am by Mefustae »

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Let me make a few corrections...

Quote
Overall Size:

Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands

Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft

Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one

The Empire has a fleet of 25000 Star Destroyers. That's in Canon universe. Add to that a indefinite number of support crafts, fighters, transport barges, navigation buoys, ecc.... You get the idea. That's far from the "dozens of ships". By VERY far.

Quote
Years in Existence:

Covenant- Eons upon eons of history

Empire - Two whole decades

Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think

Yes, true. Although the Star Wars Galaxy has been around for a long time too. Plus, as time passes, vast empires tend to become opulent, corrupt and generally decadent: that has happened in our history many many times. Plus, if you remember correctly, that's the very reason why the Empire was born in the first place. So, I'd say, in general, a "younger" organization is by far better: you can react faster and don't have the burden of a too spread out burocracy.

Quote
Best Space Machine:

Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city

Empire - The Death Star

Winner - Empire.  Come, on, seriously.

And then, they could build TWO of them.

Quote
Ground Vehicles:

Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs

Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs

Winner - Empire.  Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.

That's the only thing i don't like about SW. Yes, AT-ATs are a sight to fear on a battlefield (and in that they suit Moff Tarkin's Terror Doctrine). But still, blasting away a planet's resistance from orbit is far more efficient. The only reason the Empire used AT-AT in the Battle of Hoth was because Darth Vader wanted to capture prisoners. Otherwise, they would have been blasted long before that.

Quote
Infantry Units:

Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes

Empire - Stormtroopers.  LOTS of Stormtroopers

Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.

Unless you can clone them = pretty much infinite "supply".  And, last time I checked, the Stormtroopers where the elite among infantry. So, the majority of the engagements where dealt with by Marine Infantry, not by Stormtroopers.

Quote
Biggest Blunder:

Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring

Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon

Winner - Tie.  They're both retarded in that sense.

Oh well. That's because you need a story and some sort of gameplayability... Immagine Halo if the Covenant overwhelmed you 10000000/1. That wouldn't be fun, would it?
And, btw, there's one small difference. At the end of "The Empire Strikes Back", the Empire is actually WINNING against the Rebels. They are scattered off and hiding. A whole year passes before they can get back to action (in the Novelization of ROTJ, the actual time is six months, but I think we can agree that the dates we see in the movies count here). There's no such thing in Halo, at least, that I can remember. Master Chief is always on the Edge, never backing.

Quote
Evil Leader:

Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey

Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.

Winner - Empire.  We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.

Uhm. If you say so :)

Quote
Coolest Warrior:

Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.

Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.

Winner - Empire.  Darth will always win.

Oooooh yes :D

Quote
And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!

What do you think?  Please share your thoughts.

So, I'd probably say the Covenant have NO chance. Not even in a long term attrition war.

Quote
In a military clash, there would be no contest. Empire would own the Covenant. However, in stability the Covenant takes the first place, even if the treason of Truth did cause a civil war within the Covenant. The Empire was short-lived and collapsed when its leaders perished, allowing the New Republic to take their place. Anyway, military-wise the Old Republic, Galactic Empire and New Republic form some kind of a contiuum. I think the military power of that combined history peaked in the Clone Wars at the time of the six movies. Sith Wars probablt caused even more military action.
Yes, you are correct. In a such vast galaxy, empires, political organizations, corporations, nations, planets, cultures, races can come an go in the blink of an eye, without the rest even noticing. In fact, there are places where the Empire (or of the Old Republic, for that matter) is not known of (the nebula beyond Nar Shadda, as an example). The only constant in SW is, no matter how far and remote, there's always someone wagin war on some other one. An external threat would do nothing else than bring together the biggest factions so that they can repel the common foe and go back to their fighting.

Quote
Mixing universes is fun and pointless.
We all are a little bit "nerdish" around here... so who cares? :D



I dunno 2083 and a third dozen, says dozens to me.... lots and lots of dozens <this IS a joke>

the borg would beat both anyhow, and of course all would be defeated by 8472, it'd take a few smashed up cubes to adapt, but once that was over and done with

jeez, I would love to see the deathstar assimilated.... borg sphere..... many x l

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I dunno 2083 and a third dozen, says dozens to me.... lots and lots of dozens <this IS a joke>

the borg would beat both anyhow, and of course all would be defeated by 8472, it'd take a few smashed up cubes to adapt, but once that was over and done with

jeez, I would love to see the deathstar assimilated.... borg sphere..... many x l


I knew somebody was going to bring them up... let's stop it right now. :) You don't want to get me started on the whys and why nots the Borg too don't stand a chance against the Empire.
----------------------------------------------
GTD Swiss Pride - Orion Class
Swiss 1st Fleet, Sector 32 - Ore Belt - Sol
----------------------------------------------
"I'm an engineer!"

Eve: Since Beta Phase 2
Civilizazion Fan: Seems like forever...
SimCity Fan: SC 2000 is still the best
TT Fan: Since 1995
Switzerland: Since 1291

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
None of them could stand against the Krikkit Empire, anyways.

 

Offline Metius

  • 22
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Thanks for your opinion guys.  It's all in good fun and you make some interesting points.  However, we all know that the Shivan Juggernaut fleet would toast them both. ;7

 

Offline redsniper

  • 211
  • Aim for the Top!
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I don't know, the Shivans need a whole juggernaut fleet in order to nuke a star, and IIRC a single Krikkit robot can do the same thing with just a cricket bat and ball. :p
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I dunno 2083 and a third dozen, says dozens to me.... lots and lots of dozens <this IS a joke>

the borg would beat both anyhow, and of course all would be defeated by 8472, it'd take a few smashed up cubes to adapt, but once that was over and done with

jeez, I would love to see the deathstar assimilated.... borg sphere..... many x l


I knew somebody was going to bring them up... let's stop it right now. :) You don't want to get me started on the whys and why nots the Borg too don't stand a chance against the Empire.




borg win because they'd get so damn many new drones, the empires throwaway soldier strategy would totally fail in that sort of war

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Meh. The Chozo would beat everyone else... including the Krikkets. The hard part about that is actually getting the Chozo to fight... the most blatantly invincible alien race ever conceived and they happen to be pacific... go figure. :doubt:
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

 

Offline Mr. Vega

  • Your Node Is Mine
  • 28
  • The ticket to the future is always blank
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Taking after Spacebattles, are we?
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
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    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Damn. Where is that move thread to spacebattles.com button when you need it. :p


EDIT : Evidentially I'm just that tiny bit too slow today :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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