Author Topic: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush  (Read 3606 times)

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Offline IPAndrews

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Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Bush is obviously considering genocide but what novel solutions do you the enlightened denizens of HLP have to the problems in Iraq?

Disclaimer: this thread is not intended to be a heavy political debate but the fact that it is not intended to be a heavy political debate is not intended to offend people who like heavy political debates. Thanks for listening!
Be warned: This site's admins stole 100s of hours of my work. They will do it to you.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Nuke 'em all! :drevil:

Nah. Bush was crazy when he went in to beginwith. He can either a) stay at it and try to force it, or b) run off and let Iraq tear itself up. Option a is going to cost him mucho $. And option b will either result in complete annihilation of the species Homo Sapiens in the area of middle-east, or the people there will just come to their senses and learn to love each other, either way there would be peace in the end.

You can read between the lines that I've lost much of my interest on this subject because of the lack of noticeable progress in both peace, and genocide.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline Shade

  • 211
Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Hmm, it's tricky. The situation is messed up enough due to years of lacking the will to do the right thing, so stuff that would have worked shortly after the invasion was completed would not do so now.

First, let's look at some facts: A) Some parts of Iraq are more hostile than others, and B) The US/Brits (Yes it's a large "Coalition of the Willing", I know, but aside from the British everyone else is just there for show) don't have the manpower in place to be everywhere and keep everyone safe, nor do they have the means to send enough extra troops to achieve that during this lifetime.

So, if I were in charge, focusing my efforts on the less hostile areas to get proper infrastructure, police forces etc. up and running there would seem mighty tempting. Leave the hostile areas to rot, for the time being. Then once one area is in more-or-less working order and has a functioning Iraqi police and army presence to deal with day to day stuff, pull out most of my own troops and move on to a new, adjacent area, and repeat. Of course, this would also involve spending the same kind of money on improving people's lives as is currently being spent destroying them.

Then when the time comes, use brute force on the hostile areas, saturating them with troops to the point where anyone who even peeks out a window while holding a gun is asking for a bullet. Then basically repeat the same process there, just with vastly greater troop protection for the various civilian workers.

Would work like an amphibious invasion really, establish a beachhead, then expand out from there. As conditions start to improve, the recruitment base for the insurgency starts to shrink, and they should eventually be marginalized without any real campaign to eradicate them. Foreign fighters would still be a problem, but Iraqis living a fairly decent life under US occupation would be much less likely to aid them than Iraqis wishing they were killed during the fighting due to the ****ty conditions they live under.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2006, 12:06:14 pm by Shade »
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Offline vyper

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  • The Sexy Scotsman
Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Of the Iraq study group's recommendations, I would go with the long-haul option. This is the scenario they describe in their recommendation (iirc):
  • A short term, but substantial, increase in troop numbers
  • Concerted efforts to ensure safe handover of urban security
  • After the initial troop boost is rotated out again, remaining forces concentrate on border security and extra-urban operations.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
1/ Deploy mass airdrops of custard.  Everyone likes custard, right?
2/ Switch all existing artillery rounds with apple crumble.
3/ Send Vernon Kay to Iraq.  There's not a single problem that can't be relieved by beating the **** out of The Annoying Bolton Twat, and it would give the Iraqis a true cause for unity.

 
Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
I'll leave it to Gary Brecher, the coolest military geek evor...  :yes:

http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-17/how_to_win_in_iraq.html

Ownt please.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

  • Your Node Is Mine
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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
I'll leave it to Gary Brecher, the coolest military geek evor...  :yes:

http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-17/how_to_win_in_iraq.html

Ownt please.

That was appalling. And hilarious.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Damn. That guy is a geek... :wtf:

But I have to admit, that made sense...
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
I'll leave it to Gary Brecher, the coolest military geek evor...  :yes:

http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-17/how_to_win_in_iraq.html

Shhh, keep it down. If everyone starts reading the eXile it'll no longer be obscure and hip and then I'll have nothing to feel superior about.

But yeah, that's pretty much the only way the US could accomplish a military victory in anything less than a decade.

 

Offline Centrixo

Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
ahh what someone put as a sig on some other site.

man causes problems, no man, no problem. - J. Stalin. (btw wasnt exactly what he said but close enough.

then in the end its b, either way iraq has to work its own problem not using the us and uk as body armour.
Would you like to have a piece of duct tape shoved up your arse? - 'Duct Tape man', Derelict.

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Terwin Castronenves:"Centrixo, your car is slow, bye bye" *zoom*.
Centrixo:*sigh!* Damn!.

 

Offline vyper

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Death solves all problems. No man, no problem.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Centrixo

Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
thats the one. thanks.
Would you like to have a piece of duct tape shoved up your arse? - 'Duct Tape man', Derelict.

"You never know what your going to find until you take a look" - Snipes, Fs2.

Terwin Castronenves:"Centrixo, your car is slow, bye bye" *zoom*.
Centrixo:*sigh!* Damn!.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
ahh what someone put as a sig on some other site.

man causes problems, no man, no problem. - J. Stalin. (btw wasnt exactly what he said but close enough.

then in the end its b, either way iraq has to work its own problem not using the us and uk as body armour.

Not “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.”?

 

Offline Centrixo

Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
i might sound like a cold hearted bastard, but these people have to sort there own problems out and if they die so they die.
Would you like to have a piece of duct tape shoved up your arse? - 'Duct Tape man', Derelict.

"You never know what your going to find until you take a look" - Snipes, Fs2.

Terwin Castronenves:"Centrixo, your car is slow, bye bye" *zoom*.
Centrixo:*sigh!* Damn!.

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
i might sound like a cold hearted bastard, but these people have to sort there own problems out and if they die so they die.
So you're saying it's okay for bigger nations to go into smaller nations, wreck up the joint, and then cheese it back home without having to take responsibility for their actions?

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
i might sound like a cold hearted bastard, but these people have to sort there own problems out and if they die so they die.

Presumably you'd be happy to see Northern Ireland return to a cycle of reciprocal sectarian violence, then?

 

Offline Centrixo

Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Thank you from trying to twist my words to your advantage, im SAYING mister know it all: is that iraq has a miliary and goverment the usa and the united kingdom are not needed any longer, soon enough we will have to pull out anyway so either way iraq has to live with its own problems, get it?.

if you want to do that, so be it thats not my problem if you want to restart the northen ireland conflict.
Would you like to have a piece of duct tape shoved up your arse? - 'Duct Tape man', Derelict.

"You never know what your going to find until you take a look" - Snipes, Fs2.

Terwin Castronenves:"Centrixo, your car is slow, bye bye" *zoom*.
Centrixo:*sigh!* Damn!.

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Presumably you'd be happy to see Northern Ireland return to a cycle of reciprocal sectarian violence, then?
Yes, actually. Movie villains are getting too generic these days, we need to spice it up, and bringing back the IRA would do the trick. They could even be retroactively blamed for 9/11 and then the whole Iraq war could be relocated to a more pleasant, more alcohol-filled location.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
Thank you from trying to twist my words to your advantage, im SAYING mister know it all: is that iraq has a miliary and goverment the usa and the united kingdom are not needed any longer, soon enough we will have to pull out anyway so either way iraq has to live with its own problems, get it?.

if you want to do that, so be it thats not my problem if you want to restart the northen ireland conflict.

All-caps words aside, the strength of the Iraqi military is dubious at best, thanks to the dismantling of it following the war (including the dismissal of non-Baath loyalist generals and officers).  The strength of the government is dubious thanks to the consequent security situation, the undemocratic election process, Iranian influence, and the apparent tolerance (or at least huge amount) of sectarian violence from the security services.  There is a rather obvious necessity for some stabilising influence, and it's rather obvious that the Iraqi government alone cannot perform that task (it is equally obvious that US, UK, etc troops' actions are only serving to exacerbate the problem).

Moreso, the question remains as to what the 'run away and hide from responsibility' strategy would achieve.  At the very least it would humiliate US attempts to 'democratise' the middle east, and hand a huge victory to terrorism (even if the insurgency and looming civil war is primarily of internal origin) - an unpalatable result for the US and their allies.  Moreso, it would likely serve to destabilise the surrounding countries, and have an economic (oil) impact on the UK/US/etc - not to mention the reduced political influence from said humiliation.

The fundamental issue is that the US/UK created Iraqs problems by invading without any sort of coherent plan to create a stable democratic country nor to withdraw in an organised retreat.  It's easy to play the game of just hiding and 'letting the Iraqis sort it out' when you're not the one whose families will die in a civil war; put it in the context of the similarly tribal - if not quite analogous in scale, type and tactics - sectarian 'warfare' of Northern Ireland and I would say it puts a lot clearer context on what you're suggesting.

  

Offline Centrixo

Re: Iraq - tough decisions loom says Bush
what im suggesting is that its not my problem and im point out whats true, iraq will have to sort its own problem out, after we have finished our problem.

good aldo 14. good :).
Would you like to have a piece of duct tape shoved up your arse? - 'Duct Tape man', Derelict.

"You never know what your going to find until you take a look" - Snipes, Fs2.

Terwin Castronenves:"Centrixo, your car is slow, bye bye" *zoom*.
Centrixo:*sigh!* Damn!.