[Carl]

 

Originally posted by UGO:

we also have a lot of faith in Volition, developers of what’s possibly the best space sim ever, Freespace 2.

[This message has been edited by Carl (edited 01-28-2002).]

[CP5670]

woohoo! FS2 rules all!  

[This message has been edited by CP5670 (edited 01-29-2002).]

[mikhael]

Its close, but it comes in second to Iwar2.  


please don't kill me please please

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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline

[Stryke 9]

[kills mikhael]

What, Grocery Shopping 3005? Gee, fun! You either go out, rob a freighter, and run, occasionally doing puzzlelike missions in-between which really mke one wonder whether flight sims are the gamemakers' thing at all, or you go out, rob a freighter, and die instantly! Through the whole thing, never had one exciting or particularly interesting moment- and I'm fairly forgiving on games in general.

[Mad Bomber]

(agrees with Stryke9)

[karajorma]

IWar2 wasn`t bad but it wasn`t close to as good as FS2.

[Galemp]

Was Iwar2 published by Intercrap too? 'Cause I never heard of it.

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"An evil mind is a constant comfort."
Revisit the Great War at The Freespace-Freespace 2 Port Project

[Stryke 9]

Never heard of it?
Funny, it was one of the most overhyped games I've seen since all the billions of Red Alert sequels...

[mikhael]

Independence War was hyped? The only time I heard of the first was well after it was out and off the shelves. The second one only had hype on its own website.

Overall I find it a more satisfying sim than Freespace. It needs a stronger story, but I like it better than Freespace's supremely cliched story. I haven't found any ways beyond rank stupidity to die instantly. I do prefer the flight model to Freespace's 'planes without gravity' model, and the combat feels more intense for me. I say 'more intense', but its still not as white knuckle as I would like. Freespace failed to provide me with a really intense combat experience, even with the difficulty raised.

As much as I like Freespace (and it is my second favorite space combat game), its just very easily edged out by the better play, graphics and sound of Iwar2.

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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline

[Stryke 9]

I wasn't talking about actual ads or anything here, I-War made huge waves in some communities. I believe there was quite a bit of talk about it here as well, it was very highly anticipated, particularly for the result.

Yes, its graphics capabilities were superior (though already a bit outdated). Yes, the physics were more accurate. Still, did any of this actually make it more fun? Did the fact that space is empty instead of being filled with little gray turds that pass you as you fly make the experience any more exciting? No. The little yellow things made it look like you were hardly moving at all, and when you used an outside view you were always standing still in reference to everything else. Did the superior graphics engine and modeling program help any? No, a thousand times no! The things that were supposed to be detailed (e.g. the BioBomber), ended up with not enough detail, and there were few enough ships that couldn't get by on FreeSpace's limitations. The better textures? Noticeably lacking at some points (the tug gunpoints, station dock points, and characters), where they worked they lacked the wow factor. Lightwave modeling? They wasted it on doing fancy animations that eat RAM like a baby eats paint chips, locking up computers everywhere and prompting patches to DISABLE all the little gimmicks that I-War featured!

I think I've ranted this before, but it remains true. It had the potential to be a fantastic game, but somebody out there blew it.

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The title says it all.

[mikhael]

 

Originally posted by Stryke 9:
...
Yes, its graphics capabilities were superior (though already a bit outdated). Yes, the physics were more accurate. Still, did any of this actually make it more fun? Did the fact that space is empty instead of being filled with little gray turds that pass you as you fly make the experience any more exciting? No. The little yellow things made it look like you were hardly moving at all, and when you used an outside view you were always standing still in reference to everything else. Did the superior graphics engine and modeling program help any? No, a thousand times no!

This is EXACTLY where we disagree. I find the physics are what make the game so much fun. I don't ever feel like I'm not moving, unless--get this--I'm not moving. This game is fun because I enjoy every aspect of the game, from pirating, to playing errand boy, to sneaking to dropping the hammer on the badguys. Call me crazy.

 

The things that were supposed to be detailed (e.g. the BioBomber), ended up with not enough detail, and there were few enough ships that couldn't get by on FreeSpace's limitations. The better textures? Noticeably lacking at some points (the tug gunpoints, station dock points, and characters), where they worked they lacked the wow factor.

I'll agree with you on the textures. If they had allowed the bump channel to come through, or proper transparency mapping, it would be better off. Some of the textures (like the Biobombers) are just boring, I'll agree. Whilst many of the ships in the game are pretty low poly (annoyingly so in some cases) I didn't notice that too much. On the other hand, how many 5k poly fighters can Freespace handle before it chokes? I've managed more than 20 4800 poly ships at the St George Lag without much slowdown.

 

Lightwave modeling? They wasted it on doing fancy animations that eat RAM like a baby eats paint chips, locking up computers everywhere and prompting patches to DISABLE all the little gimmicks that I-War featured!
...

I'm not sure what your beef here is with them using Lightwave. Any modeller could have been used. The use of the lightwave format files for handling simple animations and ship setup is for convenience. The only mod to disable something was the 'no launch sequence' mod and that because it was too long. Who doesn't skip launch and land cutscenes anyway? (freespace does away with them altogether).
As to lockups? I've never had one. I've crashed the game to desktop by creating broken mods, but I'd say that's probably user error, wouldn't you?

On the balance, I'd say Iwar2 succeeds tremendously, though not as well as it could have. My biggest beef with the game has nothing to do with textures or polycounts but with the simple easiness of it. All in all, the game (like Freespace) is too damn easy, with a few solitary exceptions (Freespace had a couple of those too).

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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline

[CP5670]

IWar2 is a very nice game IMHO but FS2 is simply incredible.   I do agree with Mikhael in that FS/FS2 needs a better physics system and is way too easy (even on insane), but FS2 seems to have a lot more strong points to it. There are ways to implement better physics into the game by playing around with the tables, particularly the important inertial effect. The difficulty issue can be easily corrected though by designing your own missions, and that is where the real strength of the FS series lies. FS/FS2 are much easier to modify and expand upon than IWar2, and a game's value is doubled right there IMHO. (some good examples are HL or UT)

Personally, the only thing I really like a lot better about IWar2 (than FS2) is the physics. Simply moving around in space is quite a bit of fun, and the first time I played the game I was just experiencing the sheer joy of moving around.   On the other fronts the game does not do so well though. Combat is a bit on the boring side IMHO; the inertia can lend itself to some nice tactical encounters, but the ships are too slow in my opinion and the general level of intensity is nowhere near that of FS2's. I did not find the story all that impressive either, but I think I was just spoiled by FS2 there.   FS1's story was indeed somewhat cliched (but still extremely well done), but FS2's was just outstanding - very original and detailed, and the ending also encouraged expansion through user-made campaigns.

The ship designs and texturing in FS2 are second to none. The general distinctness of each species' architecture and styling is simply awesome. Come to think of it, there is not a single ship in the game that I don't like at least a little bit. (aside from that big ugly SAC3 shivan cargo unit, but who cares about that?  )

Also, the "pirating" idea does not really sit well with me; you don't really see pirates today looting cargo ships and such, so why should it happen hundreds of years into the future? It would be nice to have some choices in FS2 as to which squadron to join or something like that, but a completely free-form system doesn't make much sense either.

I like both games, but FS2 is the superior one IMHO.  

[This message has been edited by CP5670 (edited 01-29-2002).]

[LAW ENFORCER]

If you like pirates and Bandits, then you will wan't to play my MOD!
Beta demo coimg soonish...  


ah! I love the smell of P1MP in th mornning!  

[vadar_1]

 

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER:


ah! I love the smell of P1MP in th mornning!  

*screams madly while he melts into a pool of extremely annoying overused phrases*

[CP5670]

Isn't that phrase originally from the famous Scorched Earth game? ("I love the smell of napalm in the morning.")

Also, if you think FS2 is too easy, try this! http://wind.prohosting.com/cp5670/PItest.zip  

[mikhael]

 

Originally posted by CP5670:
Isn't that phrase originally from the famous Scorched Earth game?   ("I love the smell of napalm in the morning.")

Also, if you think FS2 is too easy, try this! http://wind.prohosting.com/cp5670/PItest.zip      

I think the original quote is from Apocalypse Now, but I'm not absolutely certan.


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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline

[Shrike]

 

Originally posted by mikhael:
I think the original quote is from Apocalypse Now, but I'm not absolutely certan.

Yes, Apocalypse now.  Far before any computer came co-opted it.

[Ace]

On the default games between IW2 and FS2, I enjoy FS2 far more. The graphics might not be as flashy as I-War, the plot may be a bit cliched, but it's more fun to delve through the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis pounding Rahu gas miners with Delta wing from the GVD Psamtik as opposed to sitting at an L-Point raiding some corporate ships, IMHO.

The IW2 plot is also pretty cliched with the generic evil corporation you're a rebel against unleashing a nasty foe plot.  

Now out of potential of the engines, IW2 has an advantage since it's newer. However the amount of things you can do with the FS engine is frightening. (as I've learned from Dark, and now from Venom)

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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
 http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/

[Shrike]

 

Originally posted by Ace:
Now out of potential of the engines, IW2 has an advantage since it's newer. However the amount of things you can do with the FS engine is frightening. (as I've learned from Dark, and now from Venom)

That could be due to the length of time people have been playing with the FS/FS2 engine - Modding to any significant degree for FS2 has existed for ten times as long as it has for IW2.  It could just be an overall greater familiarity with the FS engine that allows this.

After all, that's why console games get better as time goes on, even though the hardware stays the same.

[mikhael]

 

Originally posted by Ace:
...but it's more fun to delve through the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis ...

I won't front: the nebula in FS2 was worth the price of admission. There is nothing like limited visibility for making a dogfight fun.


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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline