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Who do you favor?

Vasudans
Neo-Terrans

Author Topic: NTF vs Vasudans  (Read 37936 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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Hmmm. I was just thinking about something. Thinking in areas of the fenris and leviathen cruisers. The fenris is faster, weaker, and a striker cruiser. The leviathen is slow, stronger, and a good cruiser for defending or opposing (its weapons are so much better than the fenrises).

Then comes the gtva's maneuver to replace cruisers with corvettes. Along with the deimos standard terran corvette, why not make  a maneuver similar to the fenris cruiser design only to corvettes. A strong corvette that's slow, and a weak corvette that's fast and not so weaponed up.
Ironically the iceni balance versus the deimos balance is something laughable. The iceni is bigger, more powerful weapons, and it's faster than the deimos, but it has no AAA at all. The deimos is like 300m shorter, not as durable, it's got less powerful weapons, but at least it's got some nice AAA.
Anyway this is possibly my most informative or retarded post of the day.
I don't know if the gtva would want to make a stronger slower corvette and make the existing deimos the lite version.

When the Leviathan and Fenris were made, fighters and bombers were far less effective than in the latter stages of FS1 and in FS2; there were no shields and, seemingly, no heavy bombs.  This means that roles which the Leviathan was designed to operate in can be filled by the fighters, etc, IMO - so you don't need either a corvette or cruiser filling that sort of role as much.  Albeit I suspect FS2 was seeing a 'rebalancing' of GTVA forces, with the corvettes taking up hunter-killer duties and destroyer classes slipping behind the frontlines to act as C&C and provide fleet-wide fighter protection.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Well one thing we do clearely see in FS2 is the direction to which each race sticks. I mean the GTA puts an emphasis on defending against attacks and C&C while the vasudans seem to go just the oposite way in the ofensive role . Sure they have C&C abilaties well developed b ut the Hecate seems to be more better suited for the task.

But there is one question which to me has yet to be answered : Would the GTA be content with the vasudans beeing the ones with the ofensive role? Since well as we can clearely see the GTA is fast running out of realy powerfull ships in terms of AC firepower while the vasudans to me it seems are just starting to develop theyr ofensive capabilaties.

Who knows perhaps they would rely more on the Deimos but that is a very dangerous gamble the play. When the Orion is totaly phased out they will have just the Hecate which formidable as it may be it is weak when compared to the its vasudan counterpart. This is largely due to different design and use aspects but still the Hecate is weak !
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Snail

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True, AlphaOne.

Also, the Terrans have control of many more systems, but most of them are backwater systems with little activity. The Vasudans control only 5 systems, all of which are highly populated.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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But there is one thing that just keeps on bothering me.
Look the Orion for example is an old design but even so it is a monster when compared with any other GTVA warship of its class in terms of AC firepower. I mean that thing is just the king of the battlefield when it comes to cap ship close range engagements in the GTVA.

And like it or not the GTA does not have a replacement. And like it or not the Orion IMO still represents terran pride and power and a ship which can surface a lot of strong emotions from terran civilians and milatary. It is a simbol and something with which terrans all over GTVA space identify.

Getting rid of something like this is just plain stupid. The vasudans on the other hand keep to theyr own philosophy(sp?) if you can not make something work better get rid of it and build another one better and more powerfull then the last. This must be what keeps theyr spirits high IMO constantly improving themselfs and prooving they can do thing more powerfull more better.

Also IMO the existing plan that we have in FS2 of replacing the old Orions put in motion by the GTVA is not without a hidden meaning to it. I seriously DO NOT BELIEVE terrans would alow themselfs to fall behind the vasudans since that is basicly what it looks to me and would be a serious blow to morale in the long term.

And I believe a replacement for the Orion was either in the design stages or already designed and beeing secretly built or tested somewhere in a secret location or a replacement in the similar line of ovewhealming AC firepower (like the Orion) is/was  in future plans for the GTVA.

Also I believe that Like it or not the GTVA is forced to not only abandon its plans for scrapping the remaining Orions but also bring back into active life some of the Orions that were not already stripped to the bone or choped off. ( I mean the ones whre bringing them back is still a good idea economicly wise) 

However there is the other option that of investing a little more money and build new Hecates but I believe that the GTVA short on cash as it will be would prefer the cheaper option. This way tehn can save some money in the short term. (it will prove to be a little expensive in the long run but still in the short term to me it sounds like the only reasonable thing to do) Also this way they will most definetly win some votes so to speak with the terran population and the Capellan refugees to have them guarded and protected by the pride of the GTA ! This will ensure them that they are taken seriously by the GTVA and that they have the most powerfull rpotection in the GTVA. Because I believe that your average GTA civilian has no idea of the poor aaaf defences of the Orion.

And that is something which can be solved by adding a corvette to it or by increasing the escort fighter wings deplyd at any given time.

Either way you look at it you have the the pride of the GTA (GTVA) the Orion and a Deimos or even a Hecate guarding some of the larges refugee convois in the history of the GTVA.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Viper01

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Bosch is about 50% responsible for causing the second shiven invasion. He also wanted to sell out the GTVA for his vision of Neo-Terra. For that reason, I say go Vasudans.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Actualy he wanted to ally himself with the shivans actualy he wanted the GTA to become ally with the shivans.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Snail

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Bosch is about 50% responsible for causing the second shiven invasion. He also wanted to sell out the GTVA for his vision of Neo-Terra. For that reason, I say go Vasudans.

50%? He opened the damn portal.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Hoe did that get by me? Actualy Bosch is the onlyu one resposible for the second shivan invasion. Altough I can not shake the feeling that he somehow heleped the GTVA towards the end of the campaign.

But still he is responsible for the destruction of capellaand the GTVA war fleet.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Viper01

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Bosch may have opened the portal but we were the ones drunk with over confidance, and WE invaded the Shivens because we thought that we defeated them once, so now they are all weak. We did not destroy the portal and Gamma Draconis nodes when we had the chance. So WE let the Shivens into our systems.

 

Offline Snail

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Shivens = Shivans.

Apart from being ass hole, if Bosch had not opened the portal, we would not have been overconfident. So it's completely Bosch's fault. You cannot change how someone will act.

But yeah.

 

Offline Mefustae

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Shivens = Shivans.

Apart from being ass hole, if Bosch had not opened the portal, we would not have been overconfident. So it's completely Bosch's fault. You cannot change how someone will act.

But yeah.
Bosch was doing what he thought was right. He was a patriot, and he believed beyond all doubt that an alliance with the Shivans would ensure the future survival of humanity. It didn't pan out, but it was worth a shot.

In all honesty, the invasion cannot be attributed to one man, but instead to a series of cockups that culminated with the near annihilation of the Terran & Vasudan species. It's that simple.

 

Offline S-99

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It probably did work, you know bosch was still alive and valuable enough for the shivans to take him alive. Just nothing of new knowledge about bosch past that in fs2.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 
Due to my extremely powerful senses of observation, I can tell this topic is about: who's stronger, NTF or Vasudans; would GTVA have won without Colossus; who's fault is it for the invasion; which is better, apple pie or ice cream.

Anyway, I'm gonna jump on topic 2, which seems like a no brainer to me: GTVA would certainly have won against the NTF without the Colossus. With the Colossus it helped, but the NTF was doomed either way. They had limited numbers and held only 3 systems, as opposed to the entire military force of two combined species that held all known systems except for the NTF's three and Sol system. In a strict sheer-numbers game, GTVA wins hands-down. Can't understand why that topic is such a debate...

As for who's responsible for the invasion...well, yes, Bosch opened the portal. That's certainly his fault. But the GTVA gained control of it and held it, and refused to shut it down in the effort to learn how to build one. So part of it is their fault too. I don't know how quickly they reacted when they spotted the Juggernaut in the nebula and tried to blow up the Knossos, but if it was a slow reaction it's even more their fault for not blowing it up earlier. Not sure that would have made a difference since the portal may have stabilized anyway...

 

Offline aldo_14

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Due to my extremely powerful senses of observation, I can tell this topic is about: who's stronger, NTF or Vasudans; would GTVA have won without Colossus; who's fault is it for the invasion; which is better, apple pie or ice cream.

Anyway, I'm gonna jump on topic 2, which seems like a no brainer to me: GTVA would certainly have won against the NTF without the Colossus. With the Colossus it helped, but the NTF was doomed either way. They had limited numbers and held only 3 systems, as opposed to the entire military force of two combined species that held all known systems except for the NTF's three and Sol system. In a strict sheer-numbers game, GTVA wins hands-down. Can't understand why that topic is such a debate...

Because it's not a sheer numbers game; the NTF hold a very strong defensive (blockade) position.

 

Because it's not a sheer numbers game; the NTF hold a very strong defensive (blockade) position.


Yeah, I realized that, which is why i specified the numbers game aspect. The NTF were holding a defensive position on three systems, and obviously it's much easier to defend than it is to attack. Thus, the GTVA would sustain much heavier losses than the NTF if the NTF only cared about holding those three systems. However, Bosch wanted to get to the portal he activated and bring most of the fleet with him; in trying to get to the portal, he sortied his entire military and because of that the GTVA destroyed him.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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It is a much more complicated issue then it apreas. Look the GTVA IMO could of won the war wihtout the help of the Collie but it would of resulte in severe casualties. Also IMO the war could of been won a lot sooner and with less casualties if the GTVA would of moved faster and would of agreed to accept the inevitable civilian casualties. But there is also politics public morale etc.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Goober5000

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It is a much more complicated issue then it apreas. Look the GTVA IMO could of won the war wihtout the help of the Collie but it would of resulte in severe casualties.
Absolutely untrue.  Go back and reread the command briefing for "The Sixth Wonder".  The GTVA was on the verge of conceding Polaris, Regulus, and Sirius to the NTF.  If it weren't for the deus ex machina of the Colossus, the NTF would have won.

Quote
Also IMO the war could of been won a lot sooner and with less casualties if the GTVA would of moved faster and would of agreed to accept the inevitable civilian casualties. But there is also politics public morale etc.
So, in other words, the GTVA would have won sooner if it had turned into the tyrannical regime that the NTF had been rebelling against?  That's a great way to trigger even more rebellion.

Haven't we been over this ground before?  I feel this thread is due for closure.



EDIT: All you n00bs who are blindly arguing for the GTVA's side should take your blindfolds off, take a step back, and look at the situation as a whole.  History is written by the victors, and you've managed to swallow the GTVA's propaganda hook, line, and sinker.  Try thinking about the war from the NTF's point of view (in general, not Bosch).  Would it have been so terrible if the NTF had won?  Why must it be necessary for all Terran systems to be united under the GTVA?

Just some food for thought. :)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 08:02:20 pm by Goober5000 »