[IPAndrews]

How many?

Well I went to the hairdressers and suddenly everyone who worked there was "m". Oh and they told me I couldn't have my hair dyed blonde because they had run out of peroxide.

[Ghostavo]

The Christians HAVE made spliner groups. For example, one would expect a Baptist sect to be much more radically conservative than a Unitarian sect. Islam's two main groups, Sunni and Shiite, are both tied to radical conservative actions.

EDIT: Spellcheck

But that's from religious interpretations. They split up based upon their diferences INSIDE that religion. For example, you don't expect people to call christians jews because they split up from them.

What you are sugesting is that people who follow the same religion as the mainstream terrorist group change their religious denomination. That makes as much sense as if in bizarro world if most terrorists were white people, white people should change their skin color!

[IPAndrews]

He's not suggesting reasonable, normal muslims become scientologists. He's suggesting reasonable, normal muslims set up a group for reasonable, normal muslims! Actually it's the best idea I've heard on this subject for a long time. A stroke of genius. So think twice before you start trying to score cheap debating points off it.

[aldo_14]

How many?

Well I went to the hairdressers and suddenly everyone who worked there was "m". Oh and they told me I couldn't have my hair dyed blonde because they had run out of peroxide.

So you're just making that up on the basis of 6 people being tried in the news?  And what does everyone working in a hairdressers being 'm' have to do with the price of cheese?

[Ghostavo]

He's not suggesting reasonable, normal muslims become scientologists. He's suggesting reasonable, normal muslims set up a group for reasonable, normal muslims! Actually it's the best idea I've heard on this subject for a long time. A stroke of genius. So think twice before you start trying to score cheap debating points off it.

Muslims = people who believe in Mohamed (or some other prophet bloke)

It's not a terrorist label, it's not any sort label except a religious one. I don't see how this is a stroke of genius. It's a religious belief. When someone says they're muslim, do you think they are telling you they are about to kill you? If the UK had done the same about Ireland, would you be calling catholics another name? No, catholics are christians who have the same interpretation as the church of Rome. Same thing applies to muslims.

So it's not a stroke of genius, it's a stroke of idiocy. Religious labels are not political labels, they are *gasp* religious! :

[IPAndrews]

Aldo and Ghostavo. Thank you for those fascinating replies. Enjoy the thread guys. 

[KappaWing]

They SHOULD be religious labels, but they have been transformed by society into political labels. If in the US someone says they're deeply Christian, it is assumed that they are conservative. The point of a label change is to dissociate themselves with that political ideology while still maintaining their religious one. And there is no valid analogy to changing skin color, as one can splinter to a new denomination easily while it is for the most part impossible for someone to change their skin color.

[aldo_14]

They SHOULD be religious labels, but they have been transformed by society into political labels. If in the US someone says they're deeply Christian, it is assumed that they are conservative. The point of a label change is to dissociate themselves with that political ideology while still maintaining their religious one. And there is no valid analogy to changing skin color, as one can splinter to a new denomination easily while it is for the most part impossible for someone to change their skin color.

So you'd say normal Christians should stop calling themselves Christian because people are wrongly using that as a label for something else?  I mean, if you say 'all Americans are stupid', the general response of American citizens is not to say 'ok, we'll call ourserse Supericans' - is it?

[KappaWing]

No but it should be.

I dont go around advertising and celebrating the fact I'm an American because I dont want to deal with ignorant people who formulate stereotypes from that label.

[Agent_Koopa]

Well, that's what you do. I personally find it offensive (not too offensive, mind you) that you think people should simply abandon their declaration of faith instead of trying to spread understanding. You should be accepted, not have to change for people stupid enough to associate "Muslim" with "terrorist".

[KappaWing]

I AGREE, but lets be REALISTIC here. people are too STUPID to accept the spreading of understanding. Why cant you understand this?

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

No but it should be.

I dont go around advertising and celebrating the fact I'm an American because I dont want to deal with ignorant people who formulate stereotypes from that label.

Well, sorry to say KW, but you're doing nothing to dispel that stereotype tonight.

[Agent_Koopa]

I AGREE, but lets be REALISTIC here. people are too STUPID to accept the spreading of understanding. Why cant you understand this?

Here we dip into cynicism and opinions. Granted, I wasn't doing much better when I was pulling from personal philosophy...

I still think that even a futile attempt to spread understanding is better than being forced into a name change, unless the leader (if any) of your religion declares war or something. It's another philosophy thing of mine.  :

[aldo_14]

I AGREE, but lets be REALISTIC here. people are too STUPID to accept the spreading of understanding. Why cant you understand this?

I don't know if that was meant to be ironic or not?

[Janos]

I AGREE, but lets be REALISTIC here. people are too STUPID to accept the spreading of understanding. Why cant you understand this?

If you are being ironic then it's somekind of self-irony which is OK, I think.  Maybe. Sometimes!

If you are not - because your opinion about "self-labelling" and stuff is exactly what you said in the very post I quote now - then you pointed out how hollow and baseless your argument is by yourself.

[KappaWing]

I love how people understand my sarcasm. 

EDIT: I guess this is where we disagree, Koopa. 

[Janos]

I love how people understand my sarcasm. 

EDIT: I guess this is where we disagree, Koopa. 

if no one at all understands your sarcasm it means your sarcasm is abysmal

[FSW]

Wouldn't a splinter group of the Muslim religion that's pro-actively positive about respect for other peoples and religions be a wonderful thing? I imagine a group like that could get a lot of media coverage and achieve a lot of good. Then we could all say to them "Fair play to you. Now come in, have a cup of tea, and tell me about your prophets.".

It would not be a splinter group. From what I have seen, this is what Islam is supposed to be like anyway. The people who aren't respectful should be considered the splinters.

Even if you labeled all of the 'good' muslims seperately, such a group would not get a lot of media coverage. Peace doesn't sell papers. Violence and intolerance is publicised, which is presumably why that is all that you can see.
Would you really say "come in, have a cup of tea"? What is stopping us from doing that now, to 'moderate' muslims?

[Scuddie]

For now, the muslim society is properly labeled extremist and terrorist.  The 'good' muslims ARE the minority.  Why is this?  Because the people in power, who primarily dictate the community, are extremists and terrorists.  Once a few years pass when loving and peaceful people in power are around, the muslim society will again be known not for terrorism (I hate that word), but for being loving and peaceful.  It's the same thing that is happening with Christianity.  It once made great societies, but because of Dubya, Pope Benedict, Pat Robertson, and every other major christian player, it is nothing more than a skidmark.  Christians need a decent being in power to clean the **** stain from its track record...  And so does muslim society.

BTW, notice I said 'society' and not 'people'.

[KappaWing]

I love how people understand my sarcasm. 

EDIT: I guess this is where we disagree, Koopa. 

if no one at all understands your sarcasm it means your sarcasm is abysmal

Or it could be that its kind of hard to understand sarcasm when its not spoken.

And Scuddie, I totally agree.