[Wanderer]

That is from HEAD branch. AFAIK every new build without the '369' identifier are HEAD branch builds.

[IPAndrews]

Getting away from the whole should this data be in the table or in the pof question... how about some help fixing our maneuvering thruster problems? Also please may I add another bug.

4) In Col Fishguts example thrusters above for the Starfury you'll notice that when rolling left and right thrusters fire off that are not labelled wth use for roll left or right!

Any chance of you guys going through a timewarp and rereleasing 3.6.9 with these bugs fixed?

Edit: Oh Fishguts was saying "maybe the AI doesn't use bank", well in that case it would have to not use roll either, because I added extra thrusters for roll and they didn't work on AI ships. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Please can TBP summon a SCP god to help us out here? 

[IPAndrews]

For testing purposes if anyone is interested.

;Earth Alliance Aurora Starfury

;Tag                           Value
$Name:                         EA Aurora
$Short name:                   Aurora
$Species:                      Earth Alliance
+Type:                         XSTR("Heavy Fighter", -1)
+Maneuverability:              XSTR("Very Good", -1)
+Armor:                        XSTR("Light", -1)
+Manufacturer:                 XSTR("Mitchell-Hyundyne", -1)
+Description:                  XSTR("Short Range Defense Operations" , -1)
$end_multi_text
+Tech Description:
XSTR("The standard fighter for the Earth Alliance, StarFury, boasts an unique design in which large engine pods are mounted on to the ends of each wing. This design gives the StarFury incredible manuvering capability that is matched and beat only by fighters emplyoing a gravimetric propulsion system. The Aurora class StarFury has good acceleration and mounts two pulse cannons. The ship can also be modified to carry several missiles on the wings. StarFuries can be launched from heavy cruisers, corvettes, as well as destroyers and larger vessels. They are not atmospheric capable fighters.", -1)
$end_multi_text
+Length:                       9 m
+Gun Mounts:                   2
+Missile Banks:                8
$POF file:                     aurora.pof
$Detail distance:              (0, 100, 250, 500)
$Show damage:                  NO
$Density:                      1
$Damp:                         0.40
$Rotdamp:                      0.65
$Max Velocity:                 22.5, 22.5, 90
$Rotation time:                3.8, 3.8, 3.1
$Rear Velocity:                45.0
$Forward accel:                3.0
$Forward decel:                2.5
$Slide accel:                  1.2
$Slide decel:                  0.8
$Glide:                        YES
$Expl inner rad:               12.0
$Expl outer rad:               24.0
$Expl damage:                  20.0
$Expl blast:                   1000.0
$Expl Propagates:              NO
$Shockwave Speed:              0.0
$Allowed PBanks:               ( "42mm Plasma" "43mm Plasma" "40mm Pulse" "60mm Pulse" "Disruptor" )
$Allowed Dogfight PBanks:      ( "42mm Plasma" "43mm Plasma" "40mm Pulse" )
$Default PBanks:               ( "40mm Pulse" )
$Allowed SBanks:               ( "EA Venom 1" "EA Venom 2" )
$Allowed Dogfight SBanks:      ( "EA Venom 1" "EA Venom 2" )
$Default SBanks:               ( "EA Venom 1" "EA Venom 1")
$SBank Capacity:               ( 4, 4 )
$Shields:                      20
$Shield Color:                 0 0 0
$Power Output:                 5.0
$Max Oclk Speed:               110.0
$Max Weapon Eng:               120
$Hitpoints:                    440
$Flags:                        ( "player_ship" "default_player_ship" "fighter" "in tech database")
$AI Class:                     EA Pilot
$Afterburner:                  YES
+Aburn Max Vel:                0.0, 0.0, 130
+Aburn For accel:              1.0
+Aburn Fuel:                   300.0
+Aburn Burn Rate:              70.0
+Aburn Rec Rate:               25.0
$Countermeasures:              6
$Scan time:                    2000
$EngineSnd:                    126
$Closeup_pos:                  0.0, 0.0, -30
$Closeup_zoom:                 0.5
$Shield_icon:                  aurora-hud
$Ship_icon:                    starfury
$Ship_anim:                    auroravid01
$Ship_overhead:                load-aurora
$Score:                        20
$Thruster01 Radius factor:     0.7
$Thruster Bitmap 2a:           thrusterflame_blue
$Thruster02 Radius factor:     0.3
$Thruster02 Length factor:     0.7
$Thruster03 Radius factor:     1.4
;top left front thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Reverse" "Roll right" "Pitch up" )
+Position:                     (-4.936 2.293 2.05)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.7
+Length:                       3.0
;top right front thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Reverse" "Roll left" "Pitch up" )
+Position:                     (4.936 2.293 2.05)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.7
+Length:                       3.0
;bottom left front thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Reverse" "Roll right" "Pitch down" )
+Position:                     (-4.936 -2.693 2.05)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.7
+Length:                       3.0
;bottom right front thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Reverse" "Roll left" "Pitch down" )
+Position:                     (4.936 -2.693 2.05)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.7
+Length:                       3.0
;top left top thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Bank left" "Slide down" )
+Position:                     (-5.054 3.486 0.376)
+Normal:                       (0.0 1.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;top right top thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Bank right" "Slide down" )
+Position:                     (5.054 3.486 0.376)
+Normal:                       (0.0 1.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom left bottom thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Bank right" "Slide up" )
+Position:                     (-5.043 -3.338 0.365)
+Normal:                       (0.0 -1.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom right bottom thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Bank left" "Slide up" )
+Position:                     (5.043 -3.338 0.365)
+Normal:                       (0.0 -1.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;top left side thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Slide left" )
+Position:                     (-6.142 2.296 0.368)
+Normal:                       (-1.0 0.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;top right side thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Slide right" )
+Position:                     (6.142 2.296 0.368)
+Normal:                       (1.0 0.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom left side thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Slide left" )
+Position:                     (-6.142 -2.696 0.368)
+Normal:                       (-1.0 0.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom right side thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Slide right" )
+Position:                     (6.142 -2.696 0.368)
+Normal:                       (1.0 0.0 0.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;top left rear thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Roll right" "Pitch down" )
+Position:                     (-5.246 2.296 -3.388)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 -1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;top right rear thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Roll left" "Pitch down" )
+Position:                     (5.246 2.296 -3.388)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 -1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom left rear thruser
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Roll right" "Pitch up" )
+Position:                     (-5.246 -2.692 -3.388)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 -1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
;bottom right rear thruster
$Thruster:
+Used for:                     ( "Roll left" "Pitch up" )
+Position:                     (5.246 -2.692 -3.388)
+Normal:                       (0.0 0.0 -1.0)
+Texture:                      manouver_thruster
+Radius:                       0.4
+Length:                       1.9
$Subsystem:                    engine,         10, 0.0
$Subsystem:                    navigation,     2,  0.0
$Subsystem:                    weapons,        5,  0.0
$Subsystem:                    sensors,        2,  0.0
$Subsystem:                    communications, 2,  0.0

[Wanderer]

Hmm.. Spmewhat unrelated to bugs... but you have got slide left and right mixed up. And also the aft and front turn thrusters are lit on the side the ship is turning towards rather than being aft being lit on the side where the ship is being turned to and front on the opposite side.

In other words all 'slide left's ought to 'slide right's, all 'slide right's ought to be 'slide left's. Then on the last four thruster entries 'roll left' and 'roll right' should we swapped.

All slide thrusters were 'slow to scale' compared to turn/bank thrusters which made them look a bit odd just like the 'reverse' does.

EDIT: And AI gets the effects every once in a while... for some reason those seemed rather rare occasions. Also IMO it got very much smaller effects than player did from similar maneuvers

[IPAndrews]

I've figured this out.

When you roll left or right, your ship does actually do a bit of banking and vertical movement along with the roll. Your thrusters are geared to fire based on the movement direction not the button pressed. So that's why the vertical thrusters fire when you do a left or right roll.

The thrusters themselevs are working on all ships. The only difference is an AI ship requires a far more aggressive change in direction or movement to achieve the same scaling of the thruster that the player ship gets for a far less aggressive maneuver. Nevertheless, as small as the effects are, they are there on the AI ships.

The actual effect when it works is nice anyway. I have updated all our Starfuries to use it now. Good work. Hopefull the AI scaling bug... if it is a bug... will be fixed.

[Col. Fishguts]

Also, I've found that the AI is in fact using them. But as opposed to the player ship, the thrusters on AI ships are all scaled with the amount of 'steering' in that direction, which makes them so miniscule that they're hard to spot.

The "no scale" feature sure would come in handy here.

Quoting myself to emphasize this. The AI is using the maneuvering thrusters, but their behavior is different than on the player ship.

[Backslash]

yep, looks like the "no scale" flag fixes this (as far as I can tell).

The way it works gets rid of a 'render_amount' factor, which then makes players and AI appear to behave the same.  Again, afaict.  The render_amount works great on players, but the problem is AI doesn't work the same way, and so far all my attempts haven't helped.  Fortunately, the no scale flag seems to do the trick.

(Another funny thing: look what happens when you turn on Gliding without the no scale flag )

[Col. Fishguts]

yep, looks like the "no scale" flag fixes this (as far as I can tell).

Could you point me to a build that supports the "no scale" flag ?

[IPAndrews]

One of the SCP guys added a method whereby you could specify things in tables as comment lines which are only for the notice of certain builds. I think the format is:

;build version;table line

If you're not using a build high enough the line is ingored as a normal comment. We could use that for the no-scale flags to retain compatability with 3.6.9. Nice feature that one. I'll look out the thread when I get chance.

[Wanderer]

This http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45175.0.html should support "no scale" flag