Author Topic: Imperial Star Destroyer (WIP)  (Read 96481 times)

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Offline BS403

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On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

i've done it before you just need the right version

Which version, pray tell?  The inferno one I borrowed a while back just vomits at me.

I attached it, can't remember were i got it though.

[attachment deleted by admin]
http://woogleville.myminicity.com/

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Offline Flaser

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With the ISD I'm not building it to use Normal maps, and why not?  Because we don't have them..

Just seems silly to build a mod around a feature that isn't implimented, and may not be for years to come, if at all.

So in the mean time, I'll stick to a high poly model, just high enough that FS can put a few on screen at a time.  Combine that with effective LODing and detail boxes and I don't think we'll have a problem with these guys.  Besides, inefficient textures tend to slow the game down just as much if not more than high numbers of polies.

And if we do get normal maps, well then I'll have a high detail source from which to make normal maps, and can easily cut down my polies to the basic level and make up the detail with the normal map that I've generated

Either way, basically, the way we're doing it now, everyone wins.  The mod can be played without waiting on the SCP coders, and when they do get the feature in, it's a quick conversion to use it.

I think you should take a look at this thread:
Use the features! (Detail Box mini tutorial)

Detail Boxing is a feature that was created with just the ISD and the Death Star in mind: a LOD (level of detail) modelling that allows cramming massive ammounts of detail into a model coupled with a rendering method that makes even several 100k poly monsters manageable.

AFAIK it already is implemented; and even if it is not present in current stable builds Bobbau (its creators) or someone else could easily compile a build just for you or include it in the next CVS builds.

You could consult DaBrain as he heavily experimented with the featuer - Shadows of Lyat in fact NEEDs the feature to even run -, and should have ample modding/modelling tips on scaling the massive poly counts.

Simply put, you cram detailed versions of parts of the model into a box - the model inside will only be drawn when the player is inside the box.
If the box is centered on the model it acts only as a simple LOD layer - however as you can move the box around, it could be directional allowing you to render parts that are only visible from a single direction.
Actually the feature was initially made for a specific thing: hangars for the Wingcommander Saga.
There is another wicked trick with them: embedding further detail boxes in a detail box allows a really smooth detailing down to the most miniscule details once again without a performance compromise.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 02:02:36 pm by Flaser »
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Turambar

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that's what ive been saying, however some people take objection to this (lookin at you topgun)

they should just chill out and let us do our thing, it'll turn out good, we promise.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
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Offline chief1983

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Yes, and I believe brandx0 already mentioned his intent to use detail boxes on the ISD in this very forum.
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Offline brandx0

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Flaser, thanks for the input!  I'm already fairly familiar with Detail Boxes and have been planning to use them all along for the ISD, as well as other large capital ships (Executor anyone?)
Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
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I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
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Offline aldo_14

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On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

i've done it before you just need the right version

Which version, pray tell?  The inferno one I borrowed a while back just vomits at me.

I attached it, can't remember were i got it though.

That worked, danke sehr.

 

Offline Cobra

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I personally dislike detail boxes, they really kind of make ships look ugly when they shouldn't. Perhaps you can make a detail box version and a non-detail box version? :)
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Offline brandx0

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How exactly do detail boxes make a ship look ugly..?
Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
"I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
-swashmebuckle's ode to the transport

 

Offline Cobra

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Lots of pop up, for one. I personally dislike pop up if it's on a major scale. I forgive it in first person shooters like Battlefield 2 (Or CoD2, but that uses "nVidia fog").
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline brandx0

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Well its more like a localized version of LODs, and if its done right it can look great
Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
"I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
-swashmebuckle's ode to the transport

 
Turambar... how many polys does your Corvette have so far?

Also, regarding the Galactica-- they only have 1 ship... and we only see 1 to 5 BaseStar ships-- so it would seem more manageable for BTRL; but my understanding was that SWC was hoping to create some large battles... so it will be interesting to see what the FPS is when everything is in-game with a number of capital ships and fighters going at it. 

At what FPS do you start to notice a performance loss?

 

Offline Turambar

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well right now (had to restart, got most of it done except for engines, my vette is at about 1000 polies. 

don't worry about performance.  we'll worry about all that stuff.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline chief1983

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I'm hoping that when all is said and done, we should be able to get some rather large battles going on that run at very playable framerates even on my old computer.  We seem to be attracting perfectionists these days, so whatever we end up with is going to be great.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Flaser

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Lots of pop up, for one. I personally dislike pop up if it's on a major scale. I forgive it in first person shooters like Battlefield 2 (Or CoD2, but that uses "nVidia fog").

IIRC DaBrian INTENTIONALLY made the details pop up in his demonstration video.

Curing it is a matter of the levels of detail you intend to put into the model. With enough boxes laid into each other you could achieve quite seamless transitions especially if instead popping in a high def model, you introduce it gradually with a low poly version furthest out, and further and further details revealed as deeper and deeper boxes are rendered.
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Offline chief1983

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I have a feeling that's how brandx0 intends to have his laid out, he seems pretty confident in his ability to use the detail boxes to that effect.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline brandx0

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Bit more progress on the ISD to post:



Currently looking at around 5600 polies (Got rid of some hidden geometry given the whining about the polycount.  Note that there's no such thing as an accurate polycount until the model's done guys!)
Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
"I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
-swashmebuckle's ode to the transport

 

Offline brandx0

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Bit more progress on the ISD front:

Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
"I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
-swashmebuckle's ode to the transport

 

Offline MarkN

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I Like...

Actually I like the corvette as well. Great work. I'd help, but unfortunately my modelling skils are somewhat limited (especially in terms of greebling).

  

Offline aldo_14

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Lots of pop up, for one. I personally dislike pop up if it's on a major scale. I forgive it in first person shooters like Battlefield 2 (Or CoD2, but that uses "nVidia fog").

If detail boxes are done properly, there shouldn't be any pop-up, same as you shouldn't notice when a LOD switches.

 

Offline JGZinv

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Turey - you mean this?

Greeble for Max 3 ~ 9

http://max.klanky.com/
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