[aldo_14]

I think people are confusing my angst with "the way things were" with me wanting no general discussion categories. So, I'll pull a WM and repost as well:

I tend to agree, splitting it further seems excessive. Its only a couple mouse clicks though to change these thngs, fluidity is not a death sentence. If this is the admins finding their feet, I am ok with that. As should now be obvious, a forum configuration is far from set in stone.

Is there a place for "general discussion" in a focused forum? Absolutely, someone suggested that the pendulum may have swung a little too far, that may be the case, this is a balancing act, its not easy, and nobody should think that any solution is permanent or perfect. Try things, just so long as it changes for the better (or at least doesn't slide you back too far), its good. There probably should be a Hard Light gendisc forum, lots of other forums manage to have gendisc without it being full of nonsense. The substance of that gendisc forum does depend somewhat on the actual focus though, and I am not sure we know what that forcus is. There are of things in that new "Pub" forum that probably qualify.

And you may have read an implied insult, but none was actually intended. If I am going to insult you, I won't bother with implied.

My arse, mate - you wouldn't have even mentioned my name and singled me out if you weren't having a dig (and, I note, juxtapositioning it next to a ridiculous oversimplification and indeed misrepresentation of my personal opinions, presumably the exaggeration being for added effect). 

Obviously I'm not a 'contributor' to the whole Freespace side of things, I guess, then?

[Taristin]

Look; the people in this thread need to decide what they're arguing for. Is is that the forum order is changed, or that gendisc was split up? If it's for the order being changed, tough, deal with it. However, if it's the split up, then there's reason to complain.

Some of you are complaining just to complain, and indeed, targeting each other with your annoying banter. That's the very crap that was targeted for removal by this split up in the first place. So, stop it, and voice real concerns, rather than "I dont like the order, Im gonna leave"

[Dark Hunter]

Personally, I do not see what the big deal is here. Stuff got moved around, big deal. Although I think naming one section the "padded cell" was a bit over the top, I don't necessarily disagree with any of it. There's still a section for General Discussion, it just isn't at the top. Which is better, frankly. The main focus of this site is creating new and fun stuff for Freespace. People come to this site for that content, not random political "discussions" that can be found on any other forum in the Net.

Not everyone is unhappy with this change, admins.

[Inquisitor]

So, Rictor says:

The rest of us mortals aren't going to embarass anyone. If someone regards the General Discussion as a cesspool of illiterate retards - you know, people who contribute nothing like aldo, Bobbaou, karajorma and so on, then they need never visit it.

I reply with:

I do not think that Rictor, Aldo, etc are illiterate morons. Quite the opposite.

And that's an implied insult?  That was EXPLICITY not my intention. I can't get more explicit than that.

Its no secret (well, I hope its not) that I am tired of the substance in what was the Hard Light forum. I think a great deal of it is noise and damn little signal. That does not mean what Rictor implied, that I think you or any other participant is stupid.

But you're angry, and I am a good person to be angry with, so I doubt very much this will be "reasonable" discourse.

-edit-
That dig about "reasonable" is pretty close to an insult, in case you were wondering. I'll go ahead an own up to that, its mostly an observation though, given the fact you seem to have missed the fact that *I* wasn't the one who singled you initially. But, i was not thinking kind thinsg when I typed it, so go ahead and take that as an insult.

[Rictor]

Look; the people in this thread need to decide what they're arguing for. Is is that the forum order is changed, or that gendisc was split up? If it's for the order being changed, tough, deal with it. However, if it's the split up, then there's reason to complain.

My complaints (the practical ones, not the abstract ones) are almost exclusively because of the latter. My guess is that this is true for most others.

My major beef is:

1. The fact that General Discussion was split up into three parts when one would do. Again, no one is forced to venture inside - it's like showing porn on late-night TV. You don't have to be there if you don't want to.

2. The fact that post counts don't count in The Padded Cell. The implication is that anything said there contributes nothing to the community and is not worth even considering a legitimate posting. This makes anyone who posts primarily in there in effect a non-member (me for example). And before anyone mentions "oh no, my e-penis won't grow!" I will say that if it's such a frivolous matter then apply a single rule to the entire forum.

3. The stricter moderation - isn't the entire point of having a board specifically, exclusively dedicated to feces-flinging to have a laissez-faire attitude, if only in that one place. Or is it better to have three ill-defined levels of "maturity", the thresholds of which are decided on the momentary whim of an admin?

Obviously I'm not a 'contributor' to the whole Freespace side of things, I guess, then?

Inquisitor is right on this one. Check my original post - I said it and it was clearly intended as sarcasm since you, Bob and kara are among the biggest contributers around here.
edit: sorry for causing the misunderstanding folks, my bad.

[jr2]

Hard Light was a Gen Disc thread, but you should be able to have Gen Disc without these popping out at you:

Evolution without sex?
Hate Democrats? Well Masturbate to this.
Look upon the face of stupidity
Cluster**** To The White House(TM)
Prepare to be indoctrinated!!!!!!!!!
Laura gets pwn3d
A pox on all you Londoners.
Fundies say the darndest things
Bill Clinton's new girlfriend?
Dirty
Redefining the word '****'
Nucking Futs!
Well, I'm pissed.

You should, however, be able to find these in a sub-forum of Gen Disc, IMO.  did anyone read my post that I just quoted from?  I didn't get any response to it... ?

[Sandwich]

Wow. I totally have zero time to read all this. Dang.

If there's good suggestions about website changes and the like buried in this thread, please collect them all together and PM me. I've got to run the scoring system at a FIRST Robotics competition next week, but life should start getting back to normal once that's over, especially since I'll be on Passover schedule (half-days at work).

Yeowsers. Good to see people care about this place so much they posted 6 pages in a day.

[redsniper]

This whole thing would be so much more awesome if an0n were involved. Alas, I don't really know how to summon him.

[vyper]

You know I figured out why Char and Cobra are mods in here. It's to discourage us from posting in any thread moved here! TEH SOCIAL ENGIN33RING!!!111

[Turey]

Wow. I totally have zero time to read all this. Dang.

If there's good suggestions about website changes and the like buried in this thread, please collect them all together and PM me. I've got to run the scoring system at a FIRST Robotics competition next week, but life should start getting back to normal once that's over, especially since I'll be on Passover schedule (half-days at work).

Yeowsers. Good to see people care about this place so much they posted 6 pages in a day.

Oh? You're involved with FIRST? You going to Atlanta? (I know it's a ways from Israel, but still.)

My team got 290 points at Sillicon Valley Regional. [/offtopic]

[Blaise Russel]

My views:

1) I think the subdivision of General discussion is unnecessary. In fact, I think we have too many forums as it is. As has been mentioned previously, I think we could turn some forums into subforums and make the top-level board a little less cluttered. Also, we don't have enough users to justify a billion different boards.

2) Correct me if this has been changed, but why is the Padded Cell (forum for flaming and spam) open to all viewers while the Meeting Hall (forum for considered debate) is hidden and requires applying for special usergroup access? If we are to have these forums at all (which, again, we shouldn't) then shouldn't it be the other way around?

3) **** the 'community'. It kinda pisses me off that some leech in General Discussion can sit around all day, posting inanities and gibberish, and still be considered 'contributing' when other people are actually working away on projects, actually making things for the community to enjoy. It's sort of annoying when it takes me a year to earn a custom title, a community award, while some goddamn idiot fresh off the internet can receive one in five minutes for acting like a moron and amusing the 'community'.

(not bitter not bitter)

It's especially irritating when I'm asking for volunteers to help me create something (with very little work involved! a one-time £10 payment and a few hours of your time!) and get absolutely no assistance whatsoever, because people would rather spout drivel about politics, or entertainment news, or gossip. And for all your descriptions of HLP as a 'bastion' of culture, wit and intelligence, I find that the HLP community's only outstanding trait is civility, and that is because the members are too tedious to use internet slang. There are other sites out there with greater depth and breadth in political and philosophical matters; this place is unfortunately too dry to sustain similar levels of discussion.

So, yeah, screw you guys. The SCP and the various modding projects are more important for HLP than chatting about real life events, even if it's one of the really intellectual and enlightening chats that naturally happen all the time here. Yeah, it's elitist; sorry, but that's life. Not everything is equal, not everything is important.

[Taristin]

Look; the people in this thread need to decide what they're arguing for. Is is that the forum order is changed, or that gendisc was split up? If it's for the order being changed, tough, deal with it. However, if it's the split up, then there's reason to complain.

My complaints (the practical ones, not the abstract ones) are almost exclusively because of the latter. My guess is that this is true for most others.

My major beef is:

1. The fact that General Discussion was split up into three parts when one would do. Again, no one is forced to venture inside - it's like showing porn on late-night TV. You don't have to be there if you don't want to.

3. The stricter moderation - isn't the entire point of having a board specifically, exclusively dedicated to feces-flinging to have a laissez-faire attitude, if only in that one place. Or is it better to have three ill-defined levels of "maturity", the thresholds of which are decided on the momentary whim of an admin?

Ill say I agree that the forums dont need to be split. That's not a good move for moderation or for posters. Ive said so to Goober as well. But it's his call as the admin most active.


I'll say I agree 100% with Blaise Russel.

[Cobra]

You know I figured out why Char and Cobra are mods in here. It's to discourage us from posting in any thread moved here! TEH SOCIAL ENGIN33RING!!!111

Don't worry, I don't bite.








Much.

[Wild Fragaria]

What is this supposed to achieve beyond censoring whatever the majority view happens to be?  Are we (we being people who like off-topic discussion) suddenly all expected to jump into the various FS forums and volunteer ourselves for projects because we've been labelled as worthless otherwise?  Is this supposed to rejuvenate anything beyond the use of the 'minimize' buttons on the forums groups?  I mean, for blimeys sake, part of the point of any forum is fun - and now it's being turned into work?

I come back after a few days and HLP has evolved!  Interesting.  The explanation for the new layout sounds like 'live with it or leave, because we only welcome those who make a contribution to the modding forums.  Oh, and watch your mouth if you decided to hang around regardless"

[Taristin]

Not at all. That's the impression the dissenters are giving. No one has forced any changes on people other than a scrolling down. People are automatically equating this to censorship, and saying things like "what's next? Post size restrictions?" when there's no proof of any of the sort.

2 things need to be changed: The three forums need to be remerged, and post counting needs to be re-enabled. But the forum should remain on the bottom, and people need to grow up a bit.

[Bobboau]

"the forum should remain on the bottom"
why?
I have yet to hear any good reason why this change was needed in the first place

[Flipside]

I personally think the gist of it is, 'This is a site about Freespace 2, the SCP and Modding, oh, and you can do general chit-chat too', which, to my mind is better than 'This is somewhere we come for general chit-chat that has something to do with Freespace 2.'

[Tyrian]

2 things need to be changed: The three forums need to be remerged, and post counting needs to be re-enabled. But the forum should remain on the bottom, and people need to grow up a bit.

Thank you.  That's exactly the point I was trying to make, only in a lot fewer words. 

I think the gripe of the people is the division of the General Forum and the removal of post-counting.  If those things are reinstated, I think we would all feel much better about the state of our community.

[Wild Fragaria]

Oh well, I guess I have been hanging out at the wrong forum for chit-chatting and scientific news discussion

[Bobboau]

yeah me too.