Author Topic: Warzone  (Read 156984 times)

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Offline MP-Ryan

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About the mission....I think the cruisers should be destroyed before moving to attack the Comm Node. There are bombers to escort and without them... the Warlock is lost....that's why I set the time to about 3 minutes. That part of the mission isn't enjoyable if you are to go after the node immediately...

3 minutes and the estimate for 2 minutes is good. I still would like to have an reminder after 1 minute though, but that is just me.

Imho it would not be enjoyable if you had to destroy the cruisers first.

You have to carefully think who to send to the comm node and who to protect the bombers and who to protect the warlock with (if there are still bombers around) and you have several wingmen to command ...

cu

Fabian

Actually, a verbal reminder after one minute has elapsed isn't a bad idea.  I've just added it.

Please test the mission again.

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Offline Fabian

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Hm,

I've playtested the mission more and am not really satisfied any more ...

If you do not manage to destroy the beam cannons the bombers do never show up and the SD is not mighty enough to just destroy the warlock when it got hit by at least some fighter fire ...

And even worse the debrief thanks you for destroying the beam cannons ...

Also I'm no longer sure that the mission is really balanced for insane anymore as action seems much quicker on that level ...

Btw. The bomber wings seem broken ... They have no orders ...

I had to destroy the cruisers with fighters and warlocks beam cannon ...

And please put that frakking comm node into the escort list ... It sucks to have to 't','t','t' cycle through all the targets until you found it or assign via F3 a hot key ...

Perhaps have the subspace bombers arrive also when SD is below some hull percentage ... Like a last ditch effort ?

Anyway, this needs more play testing and fixing imho.

cu

Fabian

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Hm,

I've playtested the mission more and am not really satisfied any more ...

If you do not manage to destroy the beam cannons the bombers do never show up and the SD is not mighty enough to just destroy the warlock when it got hit by at least some fighter fire ...

And even worse the debrief thanks you for destroying the beam cannons ...

Also I'm no longer sure that the mission is really balanced for insane anymore as action seems much quicker on that level ...

Btw. The bomber wings seem broken ... They have no orders ...

I had to destroy the cruisers with fighters and warlocks beam cannon ...

And please put that frakking comm node into the escort list ... It sucks to have to 't','t','t' cycle through all the targets until you found it or assign via F3 a hot key ...

Perhaps have the subspace bombers arrive also when SD is below some hull percentage ... Like a last ditch effort ?

Anyway, this needs more play testing and fixing imho.

cu

Fabian

If you don't destroy the primary beams, those BFReds should rip the Warlock to pieces in less than two shots each... so I'm not sure what you're doing there...

The debrief is easy enough to fix.

Not sure what you're referring to for the balancing on insane.  It should proceed as it does on the easier difficulty levels, but I'll have to try it out and see.

The bomber wings orders won't actually show up for whatever bizarre reason, but they do carry them out since LGM made his fixes.  That said, we can probably counteract this problem even further by allowing the player to issue orders to the bomber wings and reminding him of that fact in a message.  I've done this in the copy posted on this message.

The comm node can be targeted by assigning a key to "Target object in reticule" and facing it, but I've added it to the escort list just for you =)

I added a wing of Nahemas to arrive when the Daskha falls below 15% hull integrity as well.

Try it out now.

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Offline jr2

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The comm node can be targeted by assigning a key to "Target object in reticule" and facing it, ...

Default is "Y", just in case someone didn't know... although newbs probably don't browse here too often, I imagine, so I am probably preaching to the choir.  :)

 

Offline Mobius

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There are so many issues because we have changed the mission too much.

So, are we done with the mission?!?
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Offline Fabian

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If you don't destroy the primary beams, those BFReds should rip the Warlock to pieces in less than two shots each... so I'm not sure what you're doing there...
(...)
The comm node can be targeted by assigning a key to "Target object in reticule" and facing it, but I've added it to the escort list just for you =)
(...)
I added a wing of Nahemas to arrive when the Daskha falls below 15% hull integrity as well.

Okay, well I tried two things:

- target Daskha "c 3 1", once it turns it has fallen below that much hull capacity so that the Warlock wins against the Dashka (even though its hull takes damage)
- target Daskha with the two other wings but let alpha rip the first cannon to shreds, the same warlock wins against Daskha even though it still has one beam.

Thanks for the escort list :-). I know of that reticle function and even how to target subsystems, but I still first have to find it visually then, which can be still a problem if all hell break loose around you ...

Thanks for the Nahemas as well :-). Are these the same that arrive once the main beams are destroyed?

Or do we now have three wings of bombers? Imho it should be the same (whatever comes first), but I'll try it out ...

And regarding what I am doing here, I try out every possible way to fail or succeed the mission and post how it feels for me ...

cu

Fabian

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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1.  If even one BFRed fires, the Warlock should take so much damage that the cruisers finish it off near the end of the mission.  That I have tested, so unless something got mucked up in one of the other fixes, if the Warlock gets hit by a main beam on the Daskha, it should not survive the mission.  Now, if something odd is happening and it's still capable of surviving, we can address that through SEXPs.

2.  Taurus and Libra bomber wings only launch when the main beam cannons are destroyed - again, because those beams should wipe out the Warlock if they aren't destroyed.  Leo wing, the new wing of Nahemas, launches when the Daskha reaches 15% or less hull integrity.

Something odd is going on here, because every time I play this mission, if the main beams aren't destroyed quickly, the Warlock is toast.  So I'm going to load it up again and make sure I haven't broken something recently here.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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OK, unbeknownst to me LGM changed some stuff with the Daskha beams.  I just talked to him about it, so we're going to try something else.  Give me a few minutes to test the changes, and I'll post the revised version.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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*crosses fingers*

This should be the last set of changes.  Try it now - I promise that you have to destroy those beams, or the Warlock is toast.

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Offline Fabian

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*crosses fingers*

This should be the last set of changes.  Try it now - I promise that you have to destroy those beams, or the Warlock is toast.

Nope :P. What do I get for your promise? ;)

I see that you really want to get this out. So I could keep my mouth shut ...

... or perhaps not  :P.

I guess I am just too creative :D :

- Put disruptor on alpha wing fighters
- Destroy engine subsystem as fast as possible

Fighters put Daksha below 19% hull already and even Rho arrives in that time span. After a long time Warlock closes within beam range and destroys the Daksha with one shot. (Bombers launched by Daksha get destroyed in its shock wave, but I guess that is okay.)

Result:

Daksha destroyed, but Beam cannon goal not done. ;7

And with that Iota wing. I wish it would just follow its new orders to destroy both cruisers, because with Iota or Zeta its much too easy to destroy the comm node. :-(

But far from that those new beams are much more powerful and that is really good :).

cu

Fabian

PS: You asked for testers, so I test it and all possibilities I can think of to fail or succeed it ... I hope that is okay ...

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Wait a minute.... the Daskha BFReds unlock just shy of two minutes into the mission.  Even if you disable the Daskha's engine subsystem, those two beam cannons should still engage and destroy the Warlock no matter what.  Unless you have somehow managed to fully disable the Daskha while it's turning, which would be impressive to say the least.

That said, I can fix this by slapping a ship-subsystem-guardian on the Daskha's engines.

You're being really creative, I must say.  Glad you're testing this, because I never thought of that.  OK, I've done two things then:

1.  The Daskha is going to be forward beam-free even earlier (you have ~100 seconds, so just after the Daskha completes its turn).
2.  I'm putting a guardian on all its subsystems until the beam cannons are destroyed.

AND, the only orders the player can now give the bombers is to destroy the target (i.e. you can't send them after subsystems anymore).

The only concievable way to have the Warlock survive the beginning of this mission now should be to kill the two beam cannons.  I hope.  Test it out now please.

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Offline Fabian

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Wait a minute.... the Daskha BFReds unlock just shy of two minutes into the mission.  Even if you disable the Daskha's engine subsystem, those two beam cannons should still engage and destroy the Warlock no matter what.  Unless you have somehow managed to fully disable the Daskha while it's turning, which would be impressive to say the least.

Yes, that was what I did.

That said, I can fix this by slapping a ship-subsystem-guardian on the Daskha's engines.

You're being really creative, I must say.  Glad you're testing this, because I never thought of that.  OK, I've done two things then:

1.  The Daskha is going to be forward beam-free even earlier (you have ~100 seconds, so just after the Daskha completes its turn).
2.  I'm putting a guardian on all its subsystems until the beam cannons are destroyed.

AND, the only orders the player can now give the bombers is to destroy the target (i.e. you can't send them after subsystems anymore).

The only concievable way to have the Warlock survive the beginning of this mission now should be to kill the two beam cannons.  I hope.  Test it out now please.

That works, however I found another creative flaw.

I succeeded in the mission even though the lilith did arrive :).

I managed to destroy both lilith cruisers and win the mission. :P

How? Quite easy, just do not destroy the "Ragelam" and tell all forces to ignore it and chase the lilith instead. The guardian on the Warlock will protect it from the deathly beams and I have all time to destroy liliths and Parvati, then destroy "Ragelam" and win. Its nice that the mission still somehow works though ... ;)

I think even the destroy order is too much as if I cannot send orders I cannot exploit the above thing as Zeta will destroy Magellan, no matter what ...

Suggestions would be:

clear-goals that you added is good, but please also add the goal to chase both cruisers just in the different orders (M,P; P,M) ...

Even better, directly add both goals to Zeta Wing:

+$AI Goals: ( goals ( ai-chase "Ragelam" 89 ) (ai-chase "Parvati" 89 ) )

And add goal to destroy comm node to Iota wing first:

+$AI Goals: ( goals ( ai-chase "Comm Node" 89 ) )

Then re-task iota as message suggests:

( has-arrived-delay 5 "Parvati" )
( clear-goals "Iota" )
( add-goal
  "Iota"
  ( ai-chase "Parvati" 89 )
)
( add-goal
  "Iota"
  ( ai-chase "Ragelam" 89 )
)
Name: <LGM> New Iota orders

Btw. I liked the "Alpha wing clear out the sentries." message before.

And one small fix still:

"Target the crystal subsystem" should be "core subsystem", which does matter for missiles ...

The last thing that was nerving me was that the secondary objective never gets fullfilled as there are always shivans that just jump out ...

Also sometimes intercept bombers turns red, when they depart ...

Okay, you could argue that you did not do your job if they are able to depart so long into the mission, but still I personally don't like this turning red or white still standing directives if fighters or bombers depart ...

This is a more general thing though ...

cu

Fabian

PS: Perhaps also add a ship-subsys-guardian-threshold on the Warlocks engine and comm as it could be possible that random bombs destroy it and then I guess the warlock might never come into beam range, but that is just speculation ...

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Ah... that bit with the Liliths is a bug I introduced when we ship-guardian'ed the Warlock.  The Lilith's arrival is supposed to remove the guardian status on the Warlock.  I'm not at a computer with FRED installed so I'll have to fix that when I get home tonight.

As for the bomber orders - that is what they were ordered to do, and they were doing it when I playtested (but you said not for you).

Regarding the objectives:  it is possible to destroy all the bomber wings and successfully complete that objective.  It is also possible to eliminate all the fighters in the mission before they jump out (though difficult; however, as that's a secondary objective and makes no difference to the debrief or final outcome, I'm inclined to leave it like that unless there's a great deal of demand to do otherwise).

A guardian on the engine and comm subsystems of the Warlock isn't a bad idea.

And I'll change the messages, again.

So, here's my list of things to do when I get home tonight:
1. Clear guardian status when Liliths arrive.
2.  Remove player ability to command bomber wings again. (The new AI orders I introduced last night should fix their failures anyway).
3.  Guardian engine and comm subsystems of the Warlock (random value between 10 and 30).
4.  Adjust messages on comm node / bomber wings.

Anything else comes up in the next 8 hours or so, let me know.
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Offline Mobius

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I'm sorry, I'm working for INFA and I must complete a mission ASAP...

Do we really need these changes? When the Lilith arrive, the Warlock is doomed. All bomber wings have reasonable orders and yeah making sure that the Warlock isn't disabled is a good idea. But do we need all these changes? There's the voice acting, for example...
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Offline MP-Ryan

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I'm sorry, I'm working for INFA and I must complete a mission ASAP...

Do we really need these changes? When the Lilith arrive, the Warlock is doomed. All bomber wings have reasonable orders and yeah making sure that the Warlock isn't disabled is a good idea. But do we need all these changes? There's the voice acting, for example...

I can handle this kind of FREDing.

And yeah, these particular changes are necessary, and they won't take long to do.  We'll be done with this mission soon enough, LGM, and you can always get the voiceactors started on the earlier missions =)
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Updated with changes.

If I can get an answer soon I want to try changing the directives, but as far as mission events goes this is a final copy, barring any bugs.  Please test rigorously.

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Offline Fabian

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Hm, its fine on Easy or Very Easy now.

I suggest the attached changes though to have both bomber wings attack both cruisers ...

I was not able to do it on Medium though ...

My mistakes on medium were:

- Send all to protect warlock => Daksha gets not destroyed => Warlock gets destroyed sooner or later
- With the change from 113 to 100 my I can barely manage with afterburners to destroy the beams. It seems that on lower than medium the speed of the Daksha is much slower ...

And my wingman never arrive in time ...

- I find there are too many bombers and Gamma dies too fast ...

But: As I normally play on lower than medium I can hardly complain though ...

But speaking of that: I don't really like that beam-free-chained changes you did ...

cu

Fabian

PS: Yes, lets end this quick. As LGM gets impatient, I guess I won't playtest another version ...

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Offline MP-Ryan

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OK, I've beaten this on Medium several times.  It is possible to destroy the beam cannons in th allotted times (Maxims).

I've reset the beam-fire events on the Warlock - what I was doing before was allowing the BGreen to open fire, then artificially creating the delay.  Now the delay is shorter, and then everything gets freed.  This is how it used to work.  After the cannons are out, you need to kill bombers and kill lots of them to win.

I removed Leo wing - they're excessive.  On the harder difficulties, Taurus and Libra are quite enough.  I also tasked Zeta and Iota wing to both cruisers again.

The mission is difficult on Medium, but certainly not impossible if played properly.

You may need practice, but it is possible to win this on medium.

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Offline Fabian

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Now its perfect. :-)

cu

Fabian

 

Offline Admiral Nelson

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Hmm... I destroyed the crystal but the comm node didn't blow....
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