[THE Phreak]

I've just been waiting to start out small. I've got a few stuffs on hold for HL2 because maps suck without any custom content. Therefore I want to begin modelling, and considering how FS2 has a huge modding community I wanna take a stab at this. Besides, I REALLY want some custom fighters in hurr.

What relatively non-demanding modelling programs can I use to model for FS2? Does Zmodeler work? I'm on an outdated computer so I know I can handle programs like Milkshake, probably Sketchup. And what programs/exporters would I need for the export into FS2?

Also, just a glimpse to know how my specs are, I can't run FS2open very well without it crashing on me.

[jr2]

Your specs... download CPU-Z (Link is on the top left).  Save the report, then attach it by using the "More Options..." link at the bottom of the reply window.  If you don't see it, then press the "Preview" button, then it will show up.

[THE Phreak]

I already knew my specs, just wanted you guys to get an idea of what im working with:

256mb of ram
2.93 ghz celeron
onboard grfx

I dont have any money for a kickass new PC, unfortunately I spent all my money a while ago for my car. *Is currently looking for a job*

That's why I'm ruling out max, I know damn well I can't run that beast on here.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Blender will run on it (and probably quite well), but until my own tutorial is up and running, the only FS2 specific guide currently out for it is horribly out of date.
That said, it's a good place to start at least.

Here: http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/fs2/mods/fighterguide/

There are also some really good general Blender tutorial videos here too: http://www.blender.org/tutorials-help/video-tutorials/

[THE Phreak]

Aw dude thanks.

Will I need any exporters for Blender, or will PCS be enough?

[jr2]

What's your mobo make & model #?  You may be able to upgrade it relatively cheaply...

[THE Phreak]

What's your mobo make & model #?  You may be able to upgrade it relatively cheaply...

Dunno, and I'm not good with messing with computer hardware. I'm not gonna put much money into this PC anyways since I'm gonna get a better one.

[jr2]

K... hardware isn't that hard, you know... try building your own PC, it's fun.    Just search the net for instructions, or post here, I'm sure someone will give you a guide... I think I could cook one up if you were interested.  Of course, as soon as you get a job or whatever.  Let me know.

[THE Phreak]

Can you do Vertice by Vertice in Blender? I'm too used to hammer and trying molding shapes into planes is annoying me.

[Water]

Can you do Vertice by Vertice in Blender? I'm too used to hammer and trying molding shapes into planes is annoying me.

yes it will do polygon/vertex/edge modeling.

On the export question - not exactly.
Truespace (unfortunately) is used to do the last part before the model gets to PCS. Users of Max have a plugin to do this.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Can you do Vertice by Vertice in Blender? I'm too used to hammer and trying molding shapes into planes is annoying me.

Definitely! In fact that's what Blender is probably strongest at. Unlike every other modeler I've thus far tried, it won't just delete lone vertices or edges.

Not sure if it will help, but just in case - here's what I do:
Start by drawing a dot to dot style outline of the side of your ship first, then a same scale one from the top and extruding it piece by piece to fill out everything in-between. You just move the verts/edges/faces by hand to where you want them, and then create or copy new vertices/edges/faces till they form surfaces. (I'm describing it in depth in the tutorial)

It does take patience and a while to learn, but once you have it down you can build literally _any_ shape you want, no matter how complex, since you're not relying on any kind of modifiers or advanced tools at all.


Oh, actually, I wrote up a mini-guide a while back for Blender that describes some of the basics along with some very helpful features: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,42815.msg879403.html#msg879403

[Unknown Target]

Sketchup does work for modeling for Freespace, check my thread a few posts down for some tips

[THE Phreak]

Cool, so once I'm done what do I export it as? PCS reads .cob right? Does blender support it?

Also, another random question, How do i get pics in Blender for reference? (blueprints etc.)

[chief1983]

Takashi, he probably means something like this:  ISD WIP with blueprints in background

Phreak, if it's anything like in Max, it's going to be something like creating a plane primitive, and slapping the image onto it.  To make sure the aspect stays correct, the image should probably be the same height and width, which each photo editor does differently.  In Paint Shop Pro, you use the change canvas size.  In Paint, that's the only type of resize it does.  Just make sure you don't skew your image, you just want to add area to make it fill a 1:1 ratio.  Then create a square plane in the modeling app, and apply the image to it as a texture.  In Max, it's as easy as drag and drop, but it's probably different in other apps.  Hope that helps.

Also, as far as Freespace crashing on you, it probably shouldn't do that, except for several causes.  Your integrated graphics may need updated drivers, or may not support opengl properly even with updated drivers, or you may be running in D3D mode instead of OpenGL, which is very buggy and unlikely to work in many situations.  If it's just lack of support, you could easily get a video card that can handle freespace, and is probably better overall than the integrated graphics, for ~$50 or maybe less.  Installing a new video card is really easy, right up there with a ram upgrade.  I'd look into it if you want to model for freespace, since you need a way to test stuff out

[Vasudan Admiral]

you open them up in a photo viewer for viewing. the only image opening in  blender i see is loading textures.

ps: and yes, pcs reads .cob. but if you have a crappy model with terrible geometry and nowmals it will export a giant white...thing. and yes this is speaking from experience.

Wrong and wrong sorry. Taka, please don't give people advice about a program or process that you are at best barely familier with. It does a lot more harm than good, and I'm getting tired of correcting you.


THE Phreak; When you finish your model in Blender, you export it as a DirectX .X file. You then open it up in 3d Exploration (here), and save it as a cob file that you can open up in Truespace.

Unfortunately, this step into TS is still nessecary, as Blenders cob exporter is incomplete, and doesn't store things like heirarchy, textures or separate objects.

Once in TS, you only need to:
- Set up the heirarchy
      (Karajorma has a good intro to how to do that by making a turret here, and Bobboau has a great auto-generation guide for Truespace and PCS here.)

- Scale the model up or down to size. Using default conversion settings, 1 TS metre = 20 FS metres. Check the Wiki entry on PCS for more info there.

- Rotate the model so that when you're in left view in TS, the ship is facing you.

- Save as a SCN or COB and convert with PCS.

As to your question about using reference pics in Blender, yes you can. Go to the 3d modeling window's bottom left corner and then go View>Background Image>Use Background Image>Load and find your pic. At this point you should note that you will only be able to see the reference pics when you are viewing the model from top, front or right views (or their opposites) - which are accessed by the numpad keys 7, 1 and 3 respectively. You access the opposite view of each of those modes by holding ctrl while pressing the key. Eg. holding ctrl+numpad 7 will go to a bottom view.

Also good to know is that numpad Del or "." will shift the camera to focus on whatever is currently selected. Object, vertex, edge - whatever.

[THE Phreak]

THE Phreak; When you finish your model in Blender, you export it as a DirectX .X file. You then open it up in 3d Exploration (here), and save it as a cob file that you can open up in Truespace.

Unfortunately, this step into TS is still nessecary, as Blenders cob exporter is incomplete, and doesn't store things like heirarchy, textures or separate objects.

Once in TS, you only need to:
- Set up the heirarchy
      (Karajorma has a good intro to how to do that by making a turret here, and Bobboau has a great auto-generation guide for Truespace and PCS here.)

- Scale the model up or down to size. Using default conversion settings, 1 TS metre = 20 FS metres. Check the Wiki entry on PCS for more info there.

- Rotate the model so that when you're in left view in TS, the ship is facing you.

- Save as a SCN or COB and convert with PCS.

Damn, I can't use truespace on this computer.  Also about running FS2, I can definately run retail FS2  just not FS2_open because it's a memory hog, even with all features off.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Can't use as in it runs too slow to use? Or can't use as in it crashes?
If it's the former, then you might be able to use it in wireframe display as oppsed to D3D or OpenGL. The control should be bottom right of the screen.....somewhere.

Errm, and if you're serious about wanting to learn to model, you really should upgrade that vid card so it actually is a vid card. It's a bit tricky to learn to drive on a bicycle.

[THE Phreak]

The SCP hogs all of my memory and results in a crash. I've been able to play it while closing EVERY process in Task Mnger. but it still lags. It's a memory issue, not my fault its not optimized.

I only want to model small scale stuff before moving on upwards with better stuff.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Well actually I was talking about truespace there sorry.

That said - you have 256 megs or RAM. That's barely enough to run windows XP, let alone a game as graphically intensive as FSO. It's not that the SCP is 'not optimised' - it's now capable of astounding feats of speed, but combine such a tiny amount of RAM with the integrated graphics card and you have a machine that is quite simply too old and outdated to play FSO.

And in fact, the integrated graphics probably doesn't support Hardware Transformation and Lighting (HTL), a hardware feature that is standard on most games in the past few years. As such, I'm surprised you got it working at all.

[jr2]

If you notice, when you run nothing except XP (close everything else), take a look at your swapfile usage.  That's how much memory is being farmed out to the hard disk, because you don't have enough.  (Although some of it is farmed out because it is rarely used.)