[Bobboau]

well, not realy, if you lock both axies then you shouldn't be able to move on either of them, if you find you get confused with axis locking then just don't use it.

[Kazan]

i just realized a serious problem with the interface... how do you zoom without a scroll wheel

[Vasudan Admiral]

Shift+right click already takes care of that.

[Water]

well, not realy, if you lock both axies then you shouldn't be able to move on either of them, if you find you get confused with axis locking then just don't use it.

Heh - nice one

Of the many users for PCS2, some will be very proficient in  3d and some not.

The constraints and locks force the user to think boolian.
Say I want to move in just Y
so you pick XY or XZ and then you have to pick NOT Y (X)

People only use the locks for one thing - to constrain to a single axis.

From a UI point of view - make it easy
Constrain to XY , XZ, YZ
Constrain to single axis X, Y, Z

So instead of 12 button combinations you end up with just 6, and with just a single click

[Bobboau]

the axis lock setup is based on truespace's UI, and this is how it works there. the idea is if you are in a constrained mode and you find you just want one you turn off the other axis, if you want to make sure you don't accidentally move in anything but one you turn off the other two. if you want to move in just one direction you can always just use the right button movement. so there are several different ways to get what you want, some times locking an axis feels better sometimes using a different constraint works better for you.

and you need to update your mantis bug report.

[Water]

the axis lock setup is based on truespace's UI, and this is how it works there. the idea is if you are in a constrained mode and you find you just want one you turn off the other axis, if you want to make sure you don't accidentally move in anything but one you turn off the other two. if you want to move in just one direction you can always just use the right button movement. so there are several different ways to get what you want, some times locking an axis feels better sometimes using a different constraint works better for you.

From a UI point of view it's not a good choice. How long is the projected lifespan of PCS2? with how many users in that time

From my point of view to move something now in the Z axis - I will choose the constrain that does NOT contain Z (XY) and use the right mouse button. (Not Intuitive)

The example earlier where you thought I was confused because I ended up with X and Y locked, happened because
Locked X while in XZ mode
Locked Y while in YZ mode
When I switched back to XY mode both were locked

After a week of using PCS2 (not testing) the lack of hot keys for the views + ortho + constrains really slows things up.
suggest
1-6 front, side etc
7 ortho
8, 9, 0 constrains
User assignable hot keys would allow people to set it like their favorite modeling app. This would be really appreciated. I know Truespace 3.2 is a button clickers paradise, but it is also one of the most clunky interfaces around.

There are other points that could be raised about the UI, but they would require pictures to show. For a coder this stuff is probably really dull compared to the more challenging stuff in the back end. Unfortunately for a user the front end is the application - the magic you have put in behind the scenes becomes invisible  due to it hiding the complexity and getting the job done.

and you need to update your mantis bug report.

Ah.. just found the notes link.

[Bobboau]

I can add hotkeys to views'n such.

[Vasudan Admiral]

From a UI point of view - make it easy
Constrain to XY , XZ, YZ
Constrain to single axis X, Y, Z

So instead of 12 button combinations you end up with just 6, and with just a single click

I really like Waters idea (and axis constraint icons) here. That'd be a great way to handle it I reckon.

And yeah, hotkeys would be a great help for the veiws and the like.
In fact, might I suggest they be handled like blender does with the numpad? I've always found it to be the best key-controled viewer I've used in terms of accurate positioning of the camera. It's a very fast way to get precise control.

The numpad arrows 2, 8, 4 and 6 control rotation by set incriments (15° or so) rotating towards the down, up, left and right respectively (Much like those interface buttons in early PCS2 builds did).
The keys 1, 3 and 7 snap the view to the presets of front, left and top respectively. Holding ctrl and hitting those same buttons will get the back, right and bottom views, and finally the 5 key toggles between orthogonal and perspective mode.

[TrashMan]

Nice...I finalyl managed ot conver the HTL Hecate to .cob...now to work my magic on it

EDIT - You planing on using my Athena icons? Or would you prefer some other ship (Hercules, Persus?)

[Water]

Ok here is another way to handle the lock problem without much work.

Use these icons for constrains - The red indicates single axis right button mouse mode.


With a Help > mouse+keyboard page showing the blue/green as left mouse and red for right mouse - would make the three lock buttons redundant.

The only other graphical UI stuff would be to have both the grid and standard model wireframe colour included in the options colour settings. Eg Diffuse + Ambient + wireframe + grid
The ability to change the background colour would take care of models with very dark textures.

And yes I'd love to have hot keys (settable or not) They would be a huge productivity boost

Model reload

[Kazan]

oh bob... File->Save and the Save hotbar button should save to the already open file, save as should be required for format changes.

(and if saving to COB we should warn about not all data can be saved)

[Water]

Quote from detail box page

keep in mind that detail boxes are in the subobject's frame of reference, so any rotating submodels will have rotating detail boxes (this can be worked around by making them children of polyless  subobjects with a detail box).

My question is how do you make(import) something as child of a polyless subobject in PCS2.
PCS2 has a habit of dumping any branch on import that doesn't have a mesh (even if it has a child group with a mesh.)

[Getter Robo G]

Warning, I have dozens of models that PCS2 (both kazan's and Bob's builds) cannot show onscreen even when pointed to that model's folder in preferences. Textures are both in .bmp and pcx format with the .cob.

Also model will NOT show in solid or wireframe mode...

I'm posting just one of these models inteh hopes you can tell me what is it about them that makes them invisible in PCS2...

Thanks!

http://upload2.net/page/download/5QIODIVa9c3wKby/yamato.rar.html

Incidently are models required by default to have a shield mesh? (even caps?) because I figured I would make the pof and then later edit it with model view to replace the textures to see it HOWEVER PCS2 fails on "writing shield collision"...

[Water]

Incidently are models required by default to have a shield mesh? (even caps?) because I figured I would make the pof and then later edit it with model view to replace the textures to see it HOWEVER PCS2 fails on "writing shield collision"...

Shield collision has been fixed - download Bobboau's latest sig build
It was trying to do something with a shield that didn't exist - only occurred in a couple of builds

Threw a light on the mesh to form a truespace group - and it loaded fine

Might pay to separate all the turrets (and arms) from the ship - PCS2 has a turret autogen feature.

[Getter Robo G]

Downloaded new sig build same problems, no textures, model not viewable in other formats (solid or wire) can't edit data, and saving causes crash at end.

[Water]

heh - your post beat my post edit

[Getter Robo G]

I'll try that later, I thought if a model had subobjects already you didn't need a light EXCEPT for turrets? (the common problem for 1 object fighters - add a light)

Edit: While I was away I converted 3 robot models from 6k-9k polys with pcs1 that pcs2 wouldn't and I didn't use a light.
They blow up fine in game no crash.

[Water]

I'll try that later, I thought if a model had subobjects already you didn't need a light EXCEPT for turrets? (the common problem for 1 object fighters - add a light)

Edit: While I was away I converted 3 robot models from 6k-9k polys with pcs1 that pcs2 wouldn't and I didn't use a light.
They blow up fine in game no crash.

PCS2 does it by truespace group = subobject (not mesh)
I may have put you wrong. It's the group that allowed psc2 to load the Yamato mesh, not the light.

[Kazan]

PCS1 has the same group requirement

if your models are not being loaded it means you haven't followed model specs probably - you were also using a very old build.  and for the umpteenth time subobjects without geometry are unequivocally DISALLOWED

[Getter Robo G]

For the umpteenth time I am not a modeler(it's even in my sig)...

That model I posted has 1 group all the parts are slaved to the name. And of course 99% of my conversions are unarmed.

Regardless, is this in ANY way related to the texture issue when I try to load the .cob and see nothing???

I'm more concerned about that, then getting people later on who ARE modelers to bug fix the hundreds of meshes in my collection slated for certain mods.