[Colonol Dekker]

I would just like to thank you all for bringing this wonderful joyous news to my attention.........

Yay Zerg !

[Raven2001]

It's not Blizzard's job to take the next step in gaming. It's not what they do - it's not what they ever have done, in their entire history. They take existing concepts and technologies and they refine them, they make them as good and as fun as they can be. That's their forte - balance, playability... fun. That's why the original starcraft is till being actively played (in Korea at least) when it's 10 years old. Actually, that's also why Freespace 2 (similar vintage game) is still being played - both games took existing genres and made them as close to perfect as they could be made. That's what SC2 will be.

I'll be buying it.

Ive never said that it should be revolutionary in gameplay terms, quite the contrary. Yes I think they should take the formula that defines Starcraft and refine it.

However, it is not what Im seeing at the moment. You call that refinement?!? As much as I hate to pass myself as "Da Doom Prophet", I can already tell you whats its gonna be:

Starcraft 2 - a Warcraft 3 mod

No really. I have nothing against the gameplay, as I have nothing against the gameplay of C&C (which beats Starcrafts age by far, THAT was the true Dune2 successor).
However, they have NO excuse to deliver a game build in their Ice Age engines. Look at C&C3, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warhammer 40k: DoW. They all have the same RTS concept as Starcraft. However, in those you can see EVOLUTION (on every front), where in SC2 you can see the same **** they delivered 4 years ago, only with different units. The only thing that MIGHT be worthwile in that game is the story. And then again, we'll see (am I the only one who notices that Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 have exactly the same basic story?!?).

We, the HLP community, a bunch of AMATEURS (atleast to the outside worlds eyes), are doing a much better job at refinement of an existing concept, than those self styled "professionals"...

To be honest, the stupid guy is the consumer, that buys whatever **** they throw at him.

[TrashMan]

Ive never said that it should be revolutionary in gameplay terms, quite the contrary. Yes I think they should take the formula that defines Starcraft and refine it.

However, it is not what Im seeing at the moment. You call that refinement?!? As much as I hate to pass myself as "Da Doom Prophet", I can already tell you whats its gonna be:

Starcraft 2 - a Warcraft 3 mod

No really. I have nothing against the gameplay, as I have nothing against the gameplay of C&C (which beats Starcrafts age by far, THAT was the true Dune2 successor).
However, they have NO excuse to deliver a game build in their Ice Age engines. Look at C&C3, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Warhammer 40k: DoW. They all have the same RTS concept as Starcraft. However, in those you can see EVOLUTION (on every front), where in SC2 you can see the same **** they delivered 4 years ago, only with different units. The only thing that MIGHT be worthwile in that game is the story. And then again, we'll see (am I the only one who notices that Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 have exactly the same basic story?!?).

We, the HLP community, a bunch of AMATEURS (atleast to the outside worlds eyes), are doing a much better job at refinement of an existing concept, than those self styled "professionals"...

To be honest, the stupid guy is the consumer, that buys whatever **** they throw at him.

Hear, hear.. I've seen no refinement on all the gameplay vids I've seen so far. Basicly Starcraft in 3D..no other change/improvment.

[Dough with Fish]

Wow, guys. So, did you get to play StarCraft 2 already, or something? Because it sure as **** sounds like you did. The game is in PRE-ALPHA. Meaning that this is nowhere near the final product. Hell, all we've seen so far is fifteen minutes worth of Protoss gameplay, where not even all the units and abilities are finalized, let alone shown here. As for the Terran and Zerg, theres even more stuff that we haven't even seen yet. Before you guys pass judgment on something, lets wait until a little more solid evidence shows up.

[Nuke]

there really hasnt beena any major revolutions in gameplay not in at least the last 8-10 years. all the revolutions have been mainly in graphics. the graphics have been what has been driving down the skill focus in gameplay. fpses have essentially gone unchanged sence doom, but at least it requires some skill to play. graphics is definately responsible for the takeoff of the mmorpg genre. which is about the same gameplay as the old tabletop games. the main focus being to create a fantasy world that young gamers can use as a  replacement for a social life. i hope starcraft 2 does something to resurrect  skill oriented gameplay, which will lead to evolution on the gameplay front.

[Prophet]

i hope starcraft 2 does something to resurrect  skill oriented gameplay

That would mean that it would be annoying clickfest where player has to be in three places at one micromanaging units and their "special" powers. Like in Company of Heroes or C&C3. I prefer slower tactics/strategic gameplay.

I don't find it encouraging to start a huge map covered with AI with one peon and HQ. Supreme Commander was good for me because of the size of the maps. You had plenty of time to prepare and maneuver. Whereas C&C3 was annoying because of tight maps and laughable weapons range. I don't know why I still like Starcraft though. I'm just going to hope the magic is still there...

But as I said before:

It'll all end in tears, just wait and see...

[TrashMan]

The Prophet has spoken! 


No, seriously... it might change, but from what I've seen on the gameplay vids, the interface looks hte same, the units look the same, their stats look the same, the way they are used looks the same.

[Prophet]

No, seriously... it might change, but from what I've seen on the gameplay vids, the interface looks the same, the units look the same, their stats look the same, the way they are used looks the same.

Dude. Thats the thing in every early pre-stoneage-alpha version of any game. They'll try to get the engine running somehow first. And then they'll design the interface when they know what features will actually be in the game. Until then they'll just slap something in, in this case they stole the interface from the prequel. The interface and other graphics are not high priority and won't be added in the game until later. They might have artists working on them, but pre-alpha testers do not need eyecandy.

Remember early Freespace gameplay vid? Hud was very basic, full of generic icons and strange glyphs. Remember early Freespace 2 gameplay vid? The hud was basically same as in FS1 with funny weapon names like "sidearm".


EDIT: In related news: http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php
                                                       

[Ghostavo]

To further support Prophet's claim, I advice everyone to take a look at the original StarCraft's alpha here.

[gevatter Lars]

Concerning new and old stuff. I heard that you can now select more units, some units are able to overcome obstacles so that this could lead to new tactics....I think I will wait and look of SC2 will become a WarCarft II Mod or a true stand alone game.
Graphicwise its a WarCraft III mod but I don't care much as long as its fun and challangeing.

[Col. Fishguts]

For nostalgia's sake, a nice overview of the evolution of the original StarCraft: http://sclegacy.com/features/evolution.php

[Raven2001]

Wow, guys. So, did you get to play StarCraft 2 already, or something? Because it sure as **** sounds like you did. The game is in PRE-ALPHA. Meaning that this is nowhere near the final product. Hell, all we've seen so far is fifteen minutes worth of Protoss gameplay, where not even all the units and abilities are finalized, let alone shown here. As for the Terran and Zerg, theres even more stuff that we haven't even seen yet. Before you guys pass judgment on something, lets wait until a little more solid evidence shows up.

True, its pre-alpha. On the other hand, first its not like we dont know how blizzard does things already. grafically the game will be subpar, flat out and simple... unless Im missing something and WoW\W3 are still "pre-alpha". Heck those 3d modellers dont even seem to give a **** about decent human proportions (again, go see WoW and W3). What should I expect from them?!?

And second, theres just some things that they wont miraculously change at the end of development. For instance, the chessboard system, where each "hill" on the map is just an extruded square. They wont miraculously change unit interaction (the eyecandy you get of units killing themselves like in DoA), etc. Theres things that have to be set in stone since day one, and thats the kind of things Im talking about. Who the hell still builds terrain with cubes?!?

[StarSlayer]

I dunno, I can appreciate wanting it to be similar to the older version (heck I still pop in Total Annihilation once and a awhile and take it for a spin) i just think that with the cool unit designs they have and the nature of the battles it would look real nice with a Dawn of War esq format.  So you can zoom in and watch the blood splattering action.  But hey worst case scenario I can take SC2 as a nostalgia version and wait for the grim swarm violence when DoW II comes out with Tyranids.

[Prophet]

@ Raven2001:

So you don't think code can be rewritten? Terrain redone? Units redrawn?

You have no patience, do you? You don't wait and see which direction the game grows. You don't want to consider the possibility it might get better as it's worked on. You declare to game to be a complete and utter failure right after you saw first glimpse of the development process. You declare to everyone how crap the game is, because you've seen it, and you didn't like it.

I have little expectations. I give 30 % chance the game will be worthy of its title. But I still give the developers a chance to actually develop the ****ing game before spewing crap over it.

What should I expect from them?!?

You should expect Starcraft 2. Consider for a moment. How unrealistic Starcraft was. Especially Zerg units. But it was fun. So "decent human proportions" don't really even belong in the game. Because it's Starcraft.

[Raven2001]

Code can be re-written yes. But theressomething called design documents, which dictate how the game is going to be. And clearly they dictated that environment is going to be another chessboard. It wouldnt be the least feasable that they would rewritte their terrain code (for example), and then start all over on their map building, balancing, etc. Even on that SC1 Pre-Alpha, you can see that nothing relevant has changed from that point to the final product, in terms of basic RTS engine. Its just how things work. You dont change the chassis of a car when you are already working on its "carnage" (sp?!? sry dunno the word in english... its the metal cover of the car ).
Thats the kind of evolution you see from a pre alpha to a final product: a refinement in the clothing, not in the underwear.

And of course, the "great" games that IMO are the past two Blizzard titles (and I dont mean gameplay wise), wont help me have much faith that things will be really great... Companies dont change how they work overnight.

Also, you can be damn right that decent human proportions belong to the game. If you dont want to take my word for granted,. watch all of Blizzards cinematics... there you indeed have humans. In the games themselves you have some aberrations with overgrown feet and hands... not to mention squarish (particularly in WoW, not so noticeable in a RTS, but still an issue). And textures?! lol no comment on those.

Note that im pessimistic, true enough, but it is for a reason: I see Blizzards titles from a certain point onward, and I truly begin to wonder how a good company weent so downhill so fast in their game development.

EDIT: fixing the caps because it sounded agressive, and Derek Smrat... not my intent

[Ulala]

I just wish it had a darker look rather than cartoony. And given how WoW looks, that's probably not going to change in the final version.

[Dough with Fish]

Raven, something that I think you are missing here about peoples reaction to the game is this. It's a return to one of the best (and in a lot of peoples opinion, the absolute best) singleplayer campaigns out there. Say what you will with how the game looks and plays, but one thing where Blizzard always stands strong is in their story telling. You can argue all you want on how a game looks and plays, but in the case of StarCraft, if there is one element that matters the most it's the story line. We've been waiting almost a decade to see what happens with Raynor, Kerrigan, and Zeratul and now we get that chance. Thats why a lot of people are happy about this game.

[TrashMan]

Blizzard is re-hashing the same old story..

Compare War3 and SC:

Good hero becomes bad hero - Karrigan, Arthas
The now bad hero kills good guys - (Luther, Phoenix, Duke, etc..)
Teh now bad hero becomes big threat - Kerrigan beomes the Boord queen, Arthas the Lich King
the good faction must unite with a old and powerfull faction to fight off ANOTHER threat (Alliance+Dark elves vs. Demons, Terrnan+Protoss vs. Overmind)
The good turned bad hero remains aliv and a threat for possible sequels....

[Col. Fishguts]

A well done rehashed storyline is better than a crappy new one

[Dough with Fish]

A well done rehashed storyline is better than a crappy new one

QFT.

Who cares if it's rehashed? If it's well done it's still a good story.