[Nuke]

ok. with payday fast aproaching and with a shiny new case sitting on my desk, my new computer is progressing slowly, but in 2 to 4 weeks it should be up and running at capacity. anyway i plan on installing vista, yet im not sure which version to buy. im more concerned with what i get in terms of activation requirements, re-instalability, transfer capability, and what kinda services are ommited from one version or another. im not really concerned with fluff features which all adds and reviews seem to focus around. theese are the gory pain details that noone wants to talk about, especially microsoft.

to me it looks like the meatodology of the various editions is designed soley to jack the end user. in xp i stuck to the professional version because it had everything the home version had and then some. such as less dumbed down network config. the price wasnt that much more. and even though it was an oem version that came with my shortlived laptop, it didnt seemed to mind being installed and activated on another machine after suffietient time had passed. but with vista it seems both the home premium and business versions are both missing something from the other. a ploy to make users who want both buy the outrageously priced ultimate version. enough to make me want th throw every pro intellectual property lawyer in the world into a giant meat crusher.

ive been reading articles and reviews and ive yet to see a conclusive side by side compairsion of the versions (for both oem and retail versions). the 3 (or rather 6) versions i am looking at are buisness, home premium, and ultimate as well as the oem versions of each. not sure if i really need ultimate, im not sure how dumbed down home premium is, and i dont know what features business lacks. i hear business has pretty much everything ultimate has minus some media features, which im probibly not gonna use. ultimate supposidly has everything and comes with an option to buy hella cheap (relitively speaking) license keys to instal home premium on other machines. but im only going on what i read. ive never even seen vista let alone used it. i need to know from people that have used it what its capabilities really are.

[jr2]

Dual boot XP & Vista (use your old XP on your new machine, and let Mickeysoft know that you no longer use it on your old machine; they'll let you activate it).  That is, if you need Vista.  I've only seen Vista in action twice.  I didn't get to play around with it much.  Looked cool, but the security settings seemed to be apt to drive one mad.  "You must confirm that you want to confirm that you really want to install this driver..." blah, blah, blah.  I'm sure with a little playing around it could be disabled.

[DeepSpace9er]

Well lets see here... ive been running Vista Ultimate since late January when i built my new computer with an E6600 proc and 8800GTX. I had to reinstall it 2 weeks after installing when i updated the graphics drivers and the comp refused to boot in any mode. Then just last night i reset it to fix a wierd networking problem i was having and i got a black screen of death after the bios loaded and windows was supposed to load. Luckily ive kept all my programs and vital important data on a seperate hard drive because i anticipated crap like this. I could just be me and something wierd i did, but much more convenient to blame microsoft.

[IceFire]

Nuke, you hit the nail on the head.  My philosophy right now with regulars to getting Windows Vista is that if you want to do the usual OS stuff and not worry about the rest of it then get the Home Premium Edition (since the Home Basic is basically just WinXP) and get it in OEM and just never think about transferring it to another computer.  I believe you can get away with changing everything except the CPU or motherboard and you're ok (someone correct me here if I'm wrong).

[Nuke]

i dont see me ever needing to change cpus, unless by chance intels next line of quadcores, which are supposed to have a higher fsb, will give me any kind of performance boost. but traditionally such an upgrade is a waste of money. and my mobo is essentially top of the line (well actually number 2 but #1 isnt that much better). im buying the new machine for the long haul (in computer terms thats about 3 or maybe 4 years). so buying an os for the long haul i havent much problem with. its just im not in the mood for bill's little kiddie games. if he pisses me off enough il just have to run **** in wine.

[jr2]

http://www.google.com/search?&q=piebill

[IceFire]

i dont see me ever needing to change cpus, unless by chance intels next line of quadcores, which are supposed to have a higher fsb, will give me any kind of performance boost. but traditionally such an upgrade is a waste of money. and my mobo is essentially top of the line (well actually number 2 but #1 isnt that much better). im buying the new machine for the long haul (in computer terms thats about 3 or maybe 4 years). so buying an os for the long haul i havent much problem with. its just im not in the mood for bill's little kiddie games. if he pisses me off enough il just have to run **** in wine.

I know what you mean and yeah its all a bit of a piss off.  I still think that for $140 a full OEM copy that is tried a machine, so long as you intend to keep it for a while, is not too bad of a thing to pay.  Just buy it with the rest of the parts if you're building.  Thats what I tend to do.  I used to transfer copies and load the family member up with an older version of Windows when I switched PC's but I think I'll just keep whatever OEM version I buy with that computer and move on like most people do.

Thats my plan right now for the next PC I'm going to build.  I'm waiting for Penryn and Agena and we'll see what the best price/mobo/cpu/gpu combo I can come up with.  That said...the really cheap E6600 these days is a huge interest to me now.

[Polpolion]

This one time I was installing Civ 3 on my sister laptop, there was vista on it, I put the CD in the drive; Instead of the autorun showing up, I got a window saying "WARNING!! An autorun has attempted to run! Do you want it to run?" or something like that. I hit yes, then another window showed up saying "WARNING!! You are running an executable file!! Do you want to run it?" or something like that, and I still hit yes. That same window showed up when I chose install on the menu, and then another window showed up saying "WARNING!! You are about to install something! Are you sure you want to install it?" But that was the last one.

[S-99]

Wow, now if they could have made vista without that administrative crap, people would then just be regarding vista as the next version of windows with a positive attitude like when xp came along. XP is microsofts greatest operating system, it works great for anybody who has it, and many people like xp. I like xp, many say win2k was microsofts greatest operating system saying that microsoft made it too good. This is true, but as opposed to win2k i like to change the way my gui looks with something built in as opposed to having to install window blinds, and if i want to burn a basic datacd in xp i can without having to install nero. Win2k was designed with servers in mind anyway. After that vista comes along...yay. Vista's all fine and dandy until you need some major horsepower in your machine to do the simplest of 3d affects on your desktop. In linux with the beryl 3d desktop environment, you can perform the minor 3d affects that you do in vista with a lot more on a geforce 2mx. Now i never think that 3d affects in an os is gimmicky, some people think it should be made intuitive. Well the thing here is that it always is, having a 3d accelerated desktop removes the work usually done by the cpu to draw the desktop, but moves that work to the gpu. Hence your gpu for once gets to draw the desktop freeing up more of your cpu, and your gpu can get as busy as it wants with gimmicky 3d affects. At least the vista 3d affects are rather simple and not mind blowingly annoying, while the macosx 3d accelerated desktop affects are meant to catch your eye and make you go ooooo that's pretty. Why can't microsoft make a 3d accelerated desktop on a less meatier graphics cards? Idk, microsoft really sucks compared to beryl in this aspect.

After that what's with the administrative ****? Confirm to confirm to confirm that you want to install anything or run a process? They should have stuck with the minor xp way that gives you a little warning that an executable or something may contain a virus and that you should scan and disinfect it first. This is where microsoft took an idea from the administrative properties of linux, and did their best to make it differently their own...except they could have done a better job.

If vista had a 3d desktop that didn't require a 180$ video card, and replace that administrative confirmation **** with the xp minor hint and warning system. Then you'd have something i want to spend my money on. Perhaps on service pack 2 of vista is where vista will have it's fixes and serious make overs and upgrades that will make it the operating system it should have been from day one that everyone will like...sort of like xp service pack 2.

Don't buy vista right now, stick with xp, xp has extended supported till like 2009 or 2010 anyway. Wait till vista gets cheaper at least. Anyway, i moved over to free operating systems because my xp borked, and i use linux more often anyway. Not having to buy windows will save you at least 110$ on up in money when building a new computer...at least you're being smart and not buying vista just for the 3d desktop.

[IceFire]

Although it takes a wee bit of work to do...that "confirm confirm confirm" stuff (User Access Control) can be turned right off and it will never bother you again.  I know some people don't like it but I actually think its a great idea.  Why?  Because I work as tech support and people are damned stupid with the things that they do with their computer.  People install all sorts of things on their computer, largely without being aware of it, and if this is some annoying thing that says "hey, what the hell are you thinking?" then maybe it will help.  Actually maybe it should be re-worded to say exactly that...possibly with a voice over.  A bit of smack talking from your computer before you open "bonzaibuddy24.exe"

[Nuke]

im thinking about getting vista for the future proofing aspects of it, and theres not a doubt in my mind that i will have a few other operating systems installed as well. its nice that microsoft is making better use of the technology with the 3d interface, but i think they took it a bit too far in terms of hardware requirements. a few things like annexing game ports from the hardware support list (i wonder how long it will take for someone/me to make a 3rd party driver) are just plain stupid. microsoft needs to put more thought into reverse compatability. every next generation of windows means the death of several generations of software, which are later resurected when computers become fast enough to emulate them.

surely the first thing i do when i install the os is to tweak the **** out of it, standard procedure with any new install anyway. turn off all the idiot proofing which i know i dont need. im not sure what version to get yet, so i downloaded the unofficial chinese demo version merely to eveluate what features i will really use and it should help me decide once and for all what version of vista i really need. then next paycheck i will get that version and an extra 2 gb of ram and some other goodies for factor.

[S-99]

A bit of smack talking from your computer before you open "bonzaibuddy24.exe"

Oh **** no. I let my best friend use my computer once and he was cruising on the internet with it all night. Everything was all good until he got a porn dialer on there and he unplugged the phone line to my modem before it started dialing(dip****). And then he learned more about computers a good deal since then, and then i let him on my computer again, and he downloaded bonzi buddy. I was like what's this? He's like isn't it so cool. That was one useless purple faggot. And quite obviously a technology meant to broadcast everything you do on the internet to somewhere....
Here's that ape that died in 2004

[IceFire]

Yeah S-99...UAC is meant for people such as that guy.  Will make them think twice or three times before they do something stupid.  If they still do it...well not much else you can do.  I'll probably be turning UAC off when I have a computer with Vista on it but if my mom had a computer and it had Vista on it...I'd probably leave it on.  She knows enough not to do that sort of thing but occasionally she's been caught off guard and this would put a stop to it completely.

[S-99]

You know, with the uac, they should have simple uac and advanced uac. The simple uac simply giving reminders of confirm or deny this. But, the advanced uac would give reminders of confirm and deny, but if you wanted to confirm then you should have to put in your password

[Nuke]

i dont think those will help at all, if sombody wants their bull**** trojan app to run they will just click through all their accepts and install it anyway. people just dont understand that cute things are bad.

[S-99]

Another situation i can see happening is that when someone like say my mom gets vista, and it says confirm or deny on something like installing open office, she'll say she doesn't know what to do and that the computer is broken and may have a virus saying that the computer has a funky warning on it. Some people just don't read **** when a little window pops up, and if they do they refuse to understand it(some people who use computers all the time refuse to get better at them such as my mom who has her own laptop and computer, hooks up printers, burns cd's, makes advertisements, but refuses to learn how to move, drag, and delete files, but through habit never locks something simple new into her head about computers, because she says Oh i'm 55 i have trouble with this stuff...no she doesn't, she's used computers since she was 35 starting on an old commodore, through windows95 too today with xp). Would you like to install openoffice, confirm or deny? On the other hand if you simply had to put in your user password along with the buttons "ok" and "cancel", that's no questions, no bull****, for novice users they'd simply put in their password to install a piece of software as simply as they put in a cd and click install(they'd get use to it as being part of normal operations putting in a password as normal as they click accept on license agreements and where they install it on the computer as long as the computer says, please put in your password to install this software). None of that black screen confirm or deny **** which i can see would make a novice panic and think something's broken.

[Nuke]

i think everyone should learn and master dos before being allowed to even look at a gui based operating system. the reason being is that they are totally oblivious to what is going on behind the scenes. they arent familiar with the concept of commands, file system heirarchy, ect. in dos youre forced to deal with that ****. and learning dos is really the only way to pick up on theese concepts. when you get stuck in an os that is dumbed down, with no computer expierience, and everything is layed out for you, you just wont learn a damn thing about how it operates. and as a result wont get the most out of it. i wonder how many millions will be sepent on computers this year, just so that their users can play flash games all day.

[S-99]

Lol, in the days of windows 3.11 when games were in dos, i learned the basic "dir" and "cd" commands. After that it was a matter of switching drives which was easy, and getting into a directory, finding the exe and type in the name of it, and bingo. And really that's all people need to know, that's all i've ever needed to know in console. Besides the format command, and a few other basic commands i've learned when running linux, it's really about the same for which commands i've known since i was really young, and haven't need to build upon them unless i need to do something special. Most used commands for me in linux is "ls", and "cd", and that's about all i do through console when exploring directories or needing to run programs from console. Some things don't change, but yeah, people need to learn how console works, they'd probably find it a lot easier to just type in a name of a program, use said program, and go back to the console for whatever. The only reason other people find it scary because they think they need to learn some exotic commands, and that's not really so. For running **** and navigating in dos, it's as easy as "cd" and "dir" and knowing how to switch drives with a command like "c:\" or something, and then type in the program name, and then it runs. What's really funny is i'll show some people a folder and it's contents in windows, and then i'll show them the same folder and it's contents in windows console and they won't know what it is, unless they did some thinking and can see that the name of the folder is on the screen with the expected files inside, or that that person will have actually paid attention to me when i said i'll show you the same thing in console.

Of course for today's on purpose lesson in linux console for me was compiling drivers with make clean, make, make install, and adding a command to /etc/modules to have that driver start up upon system startup. That was actually fun.

[jr2]

Of course for today's on purpose lesson in linux console for me was compiling drivers with make clean, make, make install, and adding a command to /etc/modules to have that driver start up upon system startup. That was actually fun.

Some time I've gotta learn to do that...

[S-99]

It's not too hard. The thing i was mainly doing was finding a better way to install my logitech quickcam messenger in linux. And it's not too hard. In fact it's quite easy.
I started out with the mepis tutorial here which works fine if you have pretty much any debian distro. So i followed this walkthrough religiously whenever i tried out a new distro, but it had one drawback with my webcam. The webcam worked fine, until you unplugged it, and you had to restart the computer again with it plugged in if you wanted to use it again. This i thought was retarded. So i modified the walkthrough a little bit. I jost apt-get the linux headers with xawtv and whatever, grab the source code for the driver, unpack through the tar.gz file from ark as opposed to command line where i don't have to type this "tar -xvf qc-usb-messenger-1.6.tar.gz"(the only thing that makes sense out of that for me is the file name only..-xvf?) Went into console and went into the directory that i just extracted from the archive and typed ./quickcam.sh which is an installer script that checks if you have all the linux headers, compilers, kernel modules, and other necessary drivers, as well as it compiling, testing, and loading the driver for you. Nice little script that's fast, but not as fast as doing make and make install After that that ****ing mepis walkthrough wants you to put in other commands that has you modify your /etc/init.d directory which i found out is another way of doing something, but is dirtier and actually not correct. Pretty much after the driver got loaded after the installer i just put modprobe quickcam inside /etc/modules which is the clean and correct way to have linux boot up with something. Doing it my easier correct way the camera driver compiles and loads fine upon every bootup, and i can unplug the cam, and plug it back in and use it again during the same session i want(i've been dying for plugging that thing in and unplugging it as many times as i want in linux for a while as the mepis walkthrough way made me have to restart the computer every damn time i unplugged it).

I also tried installing the gspca driver for my cam, get the source, extract it, go to the direct, "make", then "make install" is pretty much the basis for compiling source, there's some extra's, but it's not that hard, after that you put command into /etc/modules to have the driver load up with the linux upon startup, so you don't have to do modprobe quickcam to load the driver manually, that's a lot more tedious, also the gspca driver didn't work for me, so i got rid of it Anyway, after i went through learning how to do things and make them easier sometimes you find out you don't have to put in all that extra commands like "touch /etc/init.d/quickcam" i don't know what "touch" does to /etc/init.d/quickcam...nor do i need to know, all i know is that it's part of modifying init.d to make linux boot up with a driver upon startup which isn't the right way to do it when i all i have to do is finish the installer script for compiling the driver, and put an entry into my /etc/modules file I want to have a fun learning experience with linux, not get scared by it, i'll learn about init.d later when i have to actually mess with it, which that time will come sometime