[Wobble73]

I actually agree with this. It makes me think of a case some time ago where a robber broke into a farm house via the kitchen sky light and fell onto a knife on a kitchen surface - cutting himself. He successfully sued the owners of the house for damages as a result of his injuries, despite the circumstances behind it all. Insanity - if you ask me.

That's just an urban legend.

That may be an urban legend, but this wasn't. I mean. the poor guy had been burgled numerous times, was old and a bit frail and obviously felt very vulnerable, so when he shot a burglar, defending himself and his home, he was tried for murder! 

[Mefustae]

That may be an urban legend, but this wasn't. I mean. the poor guy had been burgled numerous times, was old and a bit frail and obviously felt very vulnerable, so when he shot a burglar, defending himself and his home, he was tried for murder! 

Bull****. The man killed a kid, and hence deserves to be punished as much as the burglars would have. There's a difference between shooting someone who has broken into your house with the intent to harm you or your family, and someone who breaks into your house to nick a few quid. You might argue that it's hard to know the intent of someone breaking into your home, so then it might be logical to err on the side that doesn't involve killing someone. ****, it's just money! How can anyone contemplate killing someone over losing their goddamn television?!

"Burglary is without doubt one of the most despicable crimes there is but I would stress to everybody it is up to the police to resolve it and this very tragic case when there has been no winners shows that is the case."

Truer words were never spoken. I hope that guy feels real happy now that his stuff is perfectly safe, all it took was a dead kid.

[karajorma]

Exactly. If he had shot the kid while he was breaking in and he felt in danger I might have understood it but everything I heard suggested that this was a case of the guy getting sick of being burgled and deciding to shoot the next person that tried it instead of calling the police. He could have simply kept the gun on the kid and then called the police but instead he choose to kill him.

That's what made it murder.

[Wobble73]

Well I for one feel a little sorry for him, I mean I don't know all the circumstances as I wasn't there and I'm sure you'll agree that neither were you. I remember him saying that he thought that the kid had a gun and pointed it at him, granted he was mistaken but what if he hadn't have been, and he did shout a warning before he fired (At least that is what he says).

But it just goes to show why having guns around the home to defend yourself and your property is a bad thing!

[TrashMan]

Tragic, but it is an expected reaction after all.

If I have been mugges 10 times and wake up in the middle of the night with burglars popping around the corner, would I shoot?
Dunno, but I can guess it's hard to see exactly who youre shooting at in the dark. I wonder if the guy knew.

[Nuclear1]

That's what made it murder.

No, murder means there's some intent to kill or malice aforethought.  The man should have been found guilty of manslaughter with diminished responsibility (which is essentially murder without intent, like he did when he shot the kid breaking into his house to rob him) or manslaughter in the heat of passion.  A murder conviction for that situation is just bull****.  I don't know how the appellate system works in the UK, but there has got to be a way to overturn that decision or at least lessen the charges from a life sentence.

I mean, sure, he'd been robbed several times, but all that means is that he was reasonably able to respond to a robbery.  That doesn't mean he decided "next kid who breaks in I'm gonna pop one."

[AlphaOne]

Well to make it short there is never gooing to be such a perfect world where you can walk down the street safely without the threat of beeing shot stabbed raped run over by a car get hit on the head by a pipe or brick.....we just have to keep beleieving we are safe and encourage this false sense of security we are constantly beeing fed and are feeding to others at the same time. If we would start thinking about all the things that can happen to us when we leave our home or even at home we might come to the conlcusion we are safer in the wilderness with the bears and other wild animals then in our concrete cities.

Oh and if someone comes into mi home without mi permision to rob me or anithing that mai pose a threat to me mi home etc. i will bash his head open with an axe without any remorse whatsoever. He is no longer inocent once he entered mi home to rob me or worse. He might be 10 yars old for all i care if i feel mi life or mi families life is in danger i'l split him in 2. Then we can have our day in court if they feel i'm a murderer. I mean it is ridiculous to charge someone of murder just because he was defending his home and family.

[TrashMan]

Yes! Let's hide in the woods my brothers and sisters! Safety for all!

*gets shot by a hunter*
"Dangit Billy Bob...this ain't no deer!"
"But Clem, it had antlers like this...see?" * BOOM*

[AlphaOne]

LOL now thats funny!

[karajorma]

No, murder means there's some intent to kill or malice aforethought.

Which the jury felt he had in order to shoot a man who was on his knees begging for his life.

[Mika]

Well to make it short there is never gooing to be such a perfect world where you can walk down the street safely without the threat of beeing shot stabbed raped run over by a car get hit on the head by a pipe or brick...

Huh? I could locate such an area from the map, quite frankly.

[Mefustae]

Well to make it short there is never gooing to be such a perfect world where you can walk down the street safely without the threat of beeing shot stabbed raped run over by a car get hit on the head by a pipe or brick...

Huh? I could locate such an area from the map, quite frankly.

Yeah, I live there. Most people on this forum probably live in places like this. In fact, i'm rather certain the areas where you walk down the street risking being shot, stabbed, raped, run over, or hit in the head would form the vast minority of areas on this planet.

Still, this belief is most likely prevalent in the US given the culture of fear demonstrated in recent times, hence the perceived need for protection in the form of a firearm.

[achtung]

Well to make it short there is never gooing to be such a perfect world where you can walk down the street safely without the threat of beeing shot stabbed raped run over by a car get hit on the head by a pipe or brick...

Huh? I could locate such an area from the map, quite frankly.

Yeah, I live there. Most people on this forum probably live in places like this. In fact, i'm rather certain the areas where you walk down the street risking being shot, stabbed, raped, run over, or hit in the head would form the vast minority of areas on this planet.

Still, this belief is most likely prevalent in the US given the culture of fear demonstrated in recent times, hence the perceived need for protection in the form of a firearm.

That belief has been pasted on us by other countries and the news corps for the most part.  Remember, good news isn't interesting.

I live in a place where it's usually pretty quiet, but there are lots of pill heads.  People that don't care to break into a drug store, which has happened several times, for a buzz and some money.  The drug store only being about five or six hundred meters from a police station in fact.  Hell, it's only about a hundred to a hundred and fifty meters from the new court house.

[karajorma]

I watch too much CNN, man. I don't know if you've ever sat around and watched CNN longer than, say, 20 hours in one day? I don't recommend that. Watch CNN 'Headline News' for one hour, it's the most depressing thing you'll ever ****ing do. WAR, FAMINE, DEATH, AIDS, HOMELESS, RECESSION, DEPRESSION. WAR, FAMINE, DEATH, AIDS, HOMELESS . . . Then you look out your window (makes cricket noises).

Where's all this **** happening? Ted Turner is making this **** up, man! Jane Fonda won't sleep with him, he runs to a typewriter! "By 1992, we will all die of AIDS!" Read that on the air. I don't get laid, no one gets laid.

You've got to love the fact that even dead for 13 years the guy is still right.

[jr2]

Ya.

[TrashMan]

No, murder means there's some intent to kill or malice aforethought.

Which the jury felt he had in order to shoot a man who was on his knees begging for his life.

How do you know that?
If there were only 3 of them in the house, and one is dead, that only leaves the old guy and the second burglar.
So you'd practicly condenm the old man based on the burglars testimony?


EDIT:
I's also pretty quite where I live...there isn't even a police station in the town..it's THAT quiet.

[Agent_Koopa]

Oh and if someone comes into mi home without mi permision to rob me or anithing that mai pose a threat to me mi home etc. i will bash his head open with an axe without any remorse whatsoever. He is no longer inocent once he entered mi home to rob me or worse. He might be 10 yars old for all i care if i feel mi life or mi families life is in danger i'l split him in 2. Then we can have our day in court if they feel i'm a murderer. I mean it is ridiculous to charge someone of murder just because he was defending his home and family.

The point here was that he wasn't defending his home and family. He could easily not have opened fire, but chose to instead, killing a 16-year-old. You would kill a defenceless person because they tried to take your stuff? They tried to take your posessions, so you have to take their life? A human life is a human life, no matter how it is used. Avoid death wherever possible, and maybe the world would be a better place. The burglar may not be innocent, but they do not forfeit their right to life.

[achtung]

It's wrong that he killed him, I mean, usually just pointing the gun at someone is enough to make them piss their pants.

[AlphaOne]

It is also wrong to come into mi home and steal from me. The moment they entered mi home bent on stealing or dooing harm to me or mi family they forfeited they right to live. Even the most retarted children out there should know that a persons home is his castle his fortress his domain and that if you are tring to do somthing wrong you should be aware that you are risking your life.


I may have gotten a bit carried away there so i wont kill a kid who came to rub me but hell heses going to get a b eating out from me if i catch him he will NEVER EVER forget. Better shoked and traumatised for life then in the grave. That is not to say i'm a violent person . I'm not but once a 16 year old kid gets into rubbing and stuff something is seriously wrong in his own home if he has one and in his head. So if the sistem cant do anithing about it then I will. Also the city i live was also pretty quiet but lately we started seeing more gangs apear on the streets. The police and innefective at best in they work and the judges.....welll.......lets just say they give a 5 year in prison sentece to someone for stealing a pig and 2 chikens but send free a man who killed 2 people in an accident beause the police did  a bad job at the scene.

Also in recent years I have seen more and more kids 15-19 year old kids getting pistols and other stuff like that and using it like a toy. And the criminals have them too you can rest asured of that . So in  the light of these things tell me how am I suposed to know if a 16 or 17 year old child doesnt have a gun on him? How do I know if he wont shoot me or stab me or something like that?? I guess this is something which is specific to each situation.

[TrashMan]

I hate to agree, but I have to.

Kids are in general getting more violent, especialy when you count in gangs.. It's not hard to kil lsomeone - bare hands, knife or gun.
I really dunno...but I had a gun and burglars were enering my house...if I even for a second thought he had a gun, I'd probably shoot.. maby not to kill (to incapacitate)...but if it's dark and I just woke up chances are my aim isn't gonna be great...