[Mehrpack]

Then how do people in the active ships survive?

hi,
look at the ISS.
they had a shield for micro asteriods / meteriods.
that shield protect the inner core before this matter.
but its doesnt live for ever and its doesnt protect for great stuff.
thats the reason why the ISS need to navigate and go out of the way of this matter.

ok i know its the ISS and we talk over an Oriondestroyer, that can survive serveral directs hit of bombs.
but all amor has limits.
they had a live time and then i think its time to replace or if it damage to much then its to replace with new plates.
but by a death ship there nobody cares about this, because its death.
so it do, i call it so, space-rusty.

its not impossible to use so a place for a base, but isnt easy and to say that in space stuff doesnt aging, because its a vaccum, is incorrect.

Mehrpack

[Vasudan Commander]

*screenshot taken with lightning turned off and glowmaps turned on* (too dark wiht normal lightning)

wonder how i'd go about replacing it in battle from a fully functional Orion to one with a giant gaping hole in it. 

Or stopping it from exploding at 0% hull integrity. 

[foolfromhell]

*screenshot taken with lightning turned off and glowmaps turned on* (too dark wiht normal lightning)

wonder how i'd go about replacing it in battle from a fully functional Orion to one with a giant gaping hole in it. 

Or stopping it from exploding at 0% hull integrity. 

I have an idea.
It jumps out, but a message comes in that the jump-drive has failed, and the holed version jumps in, with the same name...

[BlueFlames]

Well, there's not much of a way to do the switcheroo inconspicuously.  You can have a stationary Orion that departs with no warp effect and a hulk that arrives, also with no warp effect, but if the player is watching, he'll plainly see what's going on, and if you go with a not ( facing ( [relevant input here] ) ) solution, your timing could get screwed up by the player.

As for stopping an explosion, don't let the hull-integrity reach zero.  In a technical sense, the hull never collapses in the cutscene (or you wouldn't have a floating hulk), so it never really does reach zero, so just make the ship invulnerable (probably invisible to sensors too), turret-locked, and protected/beam-protected.

[G0atmaster]

ask CP what he did for one of his easter eggs in Procyon Insurgency.  There's an egg where everything disappears except for a ton of arcadias and a leviathan armed with Shivan Super Lasers.  Maybe he could point you in the right direction.

[S-99]

hi,
look at the ISS.
they had a shield for micro asteriods / meteriods.
that shield protect the inner core before this matter.
but its doesnt live for ever and its doesnt protect for great stuff.
thats the reason why the ISS need to navigate and go out of the way of this matter.

ok i know its the ISS and we talk over an Oriondestroyer, that can survive serveral directs hit of bombs.
but all amor has limits.
they had a live time and then i think its time to replace or if it damage to much then its to replace with new plates.
but by a death ship there nobody cares about this, because its death.
so it do, i call it so, space-rusty.

its not impossible to use so a place for a base, but isnt easy and to say that in space stuff doesnt aging, because its a vaccum, is incorrect.

Mehrpack

Well i didn't say stuff in space doesn't age. I just said space is a great place for preserving stuff. Now the ship would age, rust, decay, and fall apart like a mother****er had it crashed on that planet. The ship would age in space, but aside from solar radiation and the occasional meteorite impacts, the ship would be well preserved in the cold vacuum of space. As far as rust goes, well rust happens when iron is exposed to oxygen and if you're in space you don't have rust since you have no oxygen. Basic decay of stuff that happens in atmosphere due to the atmosphere doesn't happen in space. Sure you can have other things decaying in space, but it'd really depend on how well the vessel can handle solar radiation and impacts from meteorites. Aside from meteorite impacts and solar radiation the ship would be very well preserved and pretty much be in the same condition as when it became a hulk.

Now if you had a hulk floating around in space where there's nothing to impact the ship or solar radiation to expose it to, then you'd have much better preservation and a better product to make a base out of that you could pretty much expect it to be almost as good as the day it became a hulk. After that it really depends on what the many internals and even externals are composed and made out of and whether or not they actually can decay in the cold vacuum of space.

It'd be sort of on par with cryogenic stasis. You freeze yourself, and as long there's no harm coming to you while your frozen then you come out of cryogenic stasis in the same condition as you went in. Space is like a crappy cryogenic stasis, there's too many random possibilities of stuff like space dust, meteors, comets, gravitational shifts, solar radiation, etc that can make a rather good preservation go not so good. Now in space if you had a pefect solar radiation free and meteorite free and space dust free cold space, then i don't see any metals decaying unless it's something like plutonium.

You can sort of compare the whole of empty void space to that of a cave. Both are unchanging environments and great places to preserve stuff.

[TrashMan]

*screenshot taken with lightning turned off and glowmaps turned on* (too dark wiht normal lightning)

wonder how i'd go about replacing it in battle from a fully functional Orion to one with a giant gaping hole in it. 

Or stopping it from exploding at 0% hull integrity. 

Set it to invulnerable when it goes below 5%, turret-lock it, set up a few huge expolosions on it's location and while the shockwaves and blasts are obsuring it, do a switch-model...

[Mehrpack]

Well i didn't say stuff in space doesn't age. I just said space is a great place for preserving stuff. Now the ship would age, rust, decay, and fall apart like a mother****er had it crashed on that planet. The ship would age in space, but aside from solar radiation and the occasional meteorite impacts, the ship would be well preserved in the cold vacuum of space. As far as rust goes, well rust happens when iron is exposed to oxygen and if you're in space you don't have rust since you have no oxygen. Basic decay of stuff that happens in atmosphere due to the atmosphere doesn't happen in space. Sure you can have other things decaying in space, but it'd really depend on how well the vessel can handle solar radiation and impacts from meteorites. Aside from meteorite impacts and solar radiation the ship would be very well preserved and pretty much be in the same condition as when it became a hulk.

hi,
i know that we have in space a vacuum and thats thiere no oxygen and i know that it so cant rust, but i called it spacerusty, because it hadnt a better word for it.
and you know that this little meteriods or greater parts have a high cinectic energy and thats in a solar system a lot of them.
then was that place a battleground, i think theres are the concentration of stuff for impact really high.
so i think its dont in the same condition after its became a hulk, its get over time more damage and the remaining, maybe operationel system get damage too.
if it protect against this, then yes its conservered very well.

Now if you had a hulk floating around in space where there's nothing to impact the ship or solar radiation to expose it to, then you'd have much better preservation and a better product to make a base out of that you could pretty much expect it to be almost as good as the day it became a hulk. After that it really depends on what the many internals and even externals are composed and made out of and whether or not they actually can decay in the cold vacuum of space.

you know thats the space isnt empty.
ok in a solarsystem the matter is lower as in the rest of normal space, but only on the earth falling each day serveral tons of matter down (i know some of this stuff we self shooting it in the orbit).

It'd be sort of on par with cryogenic stasis. You freeze yourself, and as long there's no harm coming to you while your frozen then you come out of cryogenic stasis in the same condition as you went in. Space is like a crappy cryogenic stasis, there's too many random possibilities of stuff like space dust, meteors, comets, gravitational shifts, solar radiation, etc that can make a rather good preservation go not so good. Now in space if you had a pefect solar radiation free and meteorite free and space dust free cold space, then i don't see any metals decaying unless it's something like plutonium.

You can sort of compare the whole of empty void space to that of a cave. Both are unchanging environments and great places to preserve stuff.

if you get frozen today, you are death, because the water in your body freeze and became cristals and damage the cells (i would only say this).

the space in solar systems and in the galaxy isnt so empty, theres a lot of radiation and a lot of free matter.
the imagination thats the space is empty is wrong and ships have to deal with that.
and a hulk without maintance have greater problems, as a ship in service.
and if the hull damage, like the legion, with a great hole, then theres the problems are greater.

Mehrpack

[TrashMan]

Since there was a big battlegroud ther I'd reckon a lot of debris would get caught in the planets gravity. Stuff high enough would remain in orbit, while stuff to close would fall down.
Stuff left in orbit would pretty much float there, but I doubt it would be any real danger for an Orion - the speed of the debris wouln't be great, and an Orion is a warship designed to take a s***load of punishment..

That said, that big hole would render it pretty useless as a warship without a MAJOR overhaul. However, with the fighterbay and some other sections of the ship in tact, turning it into a base wouldn't be too difficult.
It would surely be faster and more economical than building a new base from scratch, as you allready have a lot of stuff like living quarters, protection, elivators, fighter mainainance, hell even turrets allready thwre.
It's a matter of reparing what broken and restoring power to needed sections of the ship.

[S-99]

hi,
i know that we have in space a vacuum and thats thiere no oxygen and i know that it so cant rust, but i called it spacerusty, because it hadnt a better word for it.
and you know that this little meteriods or greater parts have a high cinectic energy and thats in a solar system a lot of them.
then was that place a battleground, i think theres are the concentration of stuff for impact really high.
so i think its dont in the same condition after its became a hulk, its get over time more damage and the remaining, maybe operationel system get damage too.
if it protect against this, then yes its conservered very well.

Well, not rust at all, i think with all the impacts that the orion would be getting would be like something along the lines of a 32 year hull sanding job with really big grit sand paper. As far as operational systems go. Turning it into a base you're not going to use the whole ship, stuff will be damaged, but not all of it, you'd have to go in and see what is still left working and see what else you would have to do to meet your needs of a hulk to be a base.

you know thats the space isnt empty.
ok in a solarsystem the matter is lower as in the rest of normal space, but only on the earth falling each day serveral tons of matter down (i know some of this stuff we self shooting it in the orbit).

Woah woah. You're taking me too literally right here. It's an imaginary what if situation. I know how much crap is falling on earth every day. But, the idea of the what if statement is that what if you could get an orion hulk into a purely empty cold vacuum with nothing else in there. Well then you'd have great preservation because nothing would be able to crash into the hulk. I wasn't saying that there are purely empty parts of space at all, that's impossible, stuff flies around all the time and you can't be certain where it's going to come from next.

if you get frozen today, you are death, because the water in your body freeze and became cristals and damage the cells (i would only say this).

the space in solar systems and in the galaxy isnt so empty, theres a lot of radiation and a lot of free matter.
the imagination thats the space is empty is wrong and ships have to deal with that.
and a hulk without maintance have greater problems, as a ship in service.
and if the hull damage, like the legion, with a great hole, then theres the problems are greater.

Mehrpack

YUUUUUGGGgg. Again taking me too literally. Yet again another what if situation. I'm not stating that you can go into and out of cryogenic stasis safely. I was saying that if you could freeze yourself, you'd come out the same way that you went in. Now in real life this wouldn't happen, you'd go in, and come out dead. No **** space is not empty (as if all the galaxies and free meteorites and stars and planets out there didn't show me). But, with imaginary situations to think about if they were real was the idea, and with imaginary situations it helps put across points and let people understand stuff easier. And the further idea of a hulk as a base is that it's not going to be a ship in service. It's going to sit there like an arcadia with probably the most gimped out repairs to get some basic living quarters, weapons, and fighter bay up and running.

Now the idea that you misunderstood me, and missed the idea of my post is YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

[Flipside]

[Post deleted by Moderator]

Yes, we have a quote button, use it when you need to quote someone, not because it's fun.

It's been suggested to me that there's some interesting discussion in this thread, and I'm inclined to agree, so I've unlocked it, but no more silly buggers.

[Mehrpack]

Well, not rust at all, i think with all the impacts that the orion would be getting would be like something along the lines of a 32 year hull sanding job with really big grit sand paper. As far as operational systems go.

hi,
i think theres serveral factors:
- how high are the damager over the hull
- if parts hit where the armor are intact or damage
- how great is the object that impact
- how massiv its it

maybe in that years nothing happend or you had serveral hits that cause a lot of inner damage.
then i think if a object thats great and massiv enough can penetrete the outer hull, then its like a ball in a flipper, before the objects lost all his kentic energy.
sure mini meteriods can do a lot of damage too, but i think they stop earlier.

but its possible too, thats nothing happends in that years.

Turning it into a base you're not going to use the whole ship, stuff will be damaged, but not all of it, you'd have to go in and see what is still left working and see what else you would have to do to meet your needs of a hulk to be a base.

yeah, right.

Woah woah. You're taking me too literally right here. It's an imaginary what if situation. I know how much crap is falling on earth every day. But, the idea of the what if statement is that what if you could get an orion hulk into a purely empty cold vacuum with nothing else in there. Well then you'd have great preservation because nothing would be able to crash into the hulk. I wasn't saying that there are purely empty parts of space at all, that's impossible, stuff flies around all the time and you can't be certain where it's going to come from next.

ok, if we had a perfect free place, without any other matter and radtition, then yes, it will nothing happen.
but so an place could exsist, between the galaxies.
that space, so think the scientist, should really empty.
but no one was today there .

YUUUUUGGGgg. Again taking me too literally. Yet again another what if situation. I'm not stating that you can go into and out of cryogenic stasis safely. I was saying that if you could freeze yourself, you'd come out the same way that you went in. Now in real life this wouldn't happen, you'd go in, and come out dead. No **** space is not empty (as if all the galaxies and free meteorites and stars and planets out there didn't show me). But, with imaginary situations to think about if they were real was the idea, and with imaginary situations it helps put across points and let people understand stuff easier. And the further idea of a hulk as a base is that it's not going to be a ship in service. It's going to sit there like an arcadia with probably the most gimped out repairs to get some basic living quarters, weapons, and fighter bay up and running.

Now the idea that you misunderstood me, and missed the idea of my post is YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

i was to 80% sure, that you that with the frozen take as an compare.
but i would say it, because some people think: its a good idea to use a chest freezer J/K .
ok i take you a lot to literally, its one of my problems with english (its a foreign language for me.)

some people believe thats in the space, between the planets, the stars and so on, its nothing, because its a vaccum and you sound so too.
sorry i would make you angry.

i doesnt keep out thats its possible thats so an hulk can use as a base, but i doesnt can stand it, thats there no ageing in the years.
thats was my intention behind it.

Since there was a big battlegroud ther I'd reckon a lot of debris would get caught in the planets gravity. Stuff high enough would remain in orbit, while stuff to close would fall down.
Stuff left in orbit would pretty much float there, but I doubt it would be any real danger for an Orion - the speed of the debris wouln't be great, and an Orion is a warship designed to take a s***load of punishment..

if the orbit go lower, the speed will go faster, afik.
and dont forget thats the orion was in a battle and taking damage.

That said, that big hole would render it pretty useless as a warship without a MAJOR overhaul. However, with the fighterbay and some other sections of the ship in tact, turning it into a base wouldn't be too difficult.
It would surely be faster and more economical than building a new base from scratch, as you allready have a lot of stuff like living quarters, protection, elivators, fighter mainainance, hell even turrets allready thwre.
It's a matter of reparing what broken and restoring power to needed sections of the ship.

i had nothing say after the hole and overhaul, it only said, if it hit there in this area, then the damage will bigger because the matter can impact in the inner section with all energy and doesnt lose energy if it first penetrate some remaining armor.
sorry if i doesnt say it clear enough.

i doesnt exclude that its possible to use an hulk as an hidden base.
i only exclude thats its easy and that there after the battle there the hulk not get more damage.
yes maybe the chance is in that 32 years not so high, but high enough, imho.

Mehrpack

[TrashMan]

Well, according to the into ani, the Legion looked as if it's in the same shape as it was when the Lucifer gutted it.
I saw no other big holes on it and small holes are easy to repair in FS2 timeline.

Micrometeorites? I think it's safe to assume that the Orions are capable of shrugging them off, since they are quite a commen phenomena in space.

[Wobble73]

I think after 32 years most of the working life support systems, fighter maintenance equipment and even power cells would have been stripped out by scavengers or salvage workers! So I think it would be a little more difficult to create a base out of the hulk then you first thought! I mean if it had sat there untouched by human hand after 32 yrs then maybe, but I tend to think that a lot of the ships parts would have been salvageable and expensive so it's likely to have been stripped down to the chassis/hulk!

[TrashMan]

possible... unless the Legion has been made a monument/historical site and is policed...that is, untill Deneb became a battleground again with the NTF offensive. With the police force running or re-located elsewhere, the NTF would be free to make use of the hulk.

[akenbosch]

hes talking about ships with big holes straight through them, not active ships

[TrashMan]

They both share the same armor in all places ... how many objects would stike that in that hole anyway? How mayn would just pass trough?
And how much more damage can they do in that section to boot?

[akenbosch]

we dont know. was it in an asteroid field? were there any old broken ships flying around? well, the shisp wouldnt matter. they just bounce off. was there a rouge comet that hit it? i dunno. ask the storywriter from [v] if you want solid answers.

[colecampbell666]

Mehrpack, please stop adding your name to the end of your posts, it gets annoying

colecampbell666

[akenbosch]

unbend that senor array, and make hull plating over the hole as a destroyable subsytem. the use the following SEXP bit in your beam-fire event:

fire-beam
sd lucifer
turretsomething
GTD kegion
holecovering


the beam will hit the subsytem, pierce it al-la belsarius style, shrink down and disapear, leaving a hole.