[TrashMan]

I have no problems with police having tasers but the fact is that better training is needed for their use. This situation and the one with the 6 year old are situations in which the taser should not have been used.

And there are a LOT of people who'd say the opposite..

So it's basicly a matter of oppinion wether it was warranted or not.

[karajorma]

It's also a matter of science though. If even the manufacturers of the device say it's not safe to use on 6 year olds then it's a fair bet that they're more likely to be correct than you are.

[Mika]

I'm a little surprised about the video, I saw no need to use the taser at all. The police didn't do their job very well in the beginning either - for me it would seem that they were not used to be working in situations like these. They stated their intentions quite clearly, yes, but in this case it doesn't really help. There was no reason for it, and thus the behavior of the student. Unfortunately the police reactions caused some kind of panic attack for the student, who probably was not very used to talk or deal with police. However, I did not see any need to escort the person out from that situation (and no, asking something related to conspiracy theories is not a reason), and he certainly was not a threat. Besides, why was there police in the first place?

Generally speaking, it is well possible that you need six strong men to take down a single enraged man (and sometimes this is not enough!). This was not that kind of case.

This reminds me of a incident here, when a guy was pulling up a shotgun from his car and starting to aim the police. The police responded by shooting the guy in the elbow through the windshield and then subdued him. And imagine that there was somekind of minor outcry of police violence (human rights organisations) after this incident! This was a police response I can understand, the one in the link I cannot.

Mika

[karajorma]

This reminds me of a incident here, when a guy was pulling up a shotgun from his car and starting to aim the police. The police responded by shooting the guy in the elbow through the windshield and then subdued him. And imagine that there was somekind of minor outcry of police violence (human rights organisations) after this incident! This was a police response I can understand, the one in the link I cannot.

Either that's the "Media Outrage!!!111" version of the story or the people making the complaint are idiots. Someone holding a firearm is definitely a threat. I wouldn't have batted an eyelid if they'd shot him dead. Shooting to disarm actually showed restraint.

[TrashMan]

It's also a matter of science though. If even the manufacturers of the device say it's not safe to use on 6 year olds then it's a fair bet that they're more likely to be correct than you are.

Maby there is a risk, but could you have jumped at the kid and taken that piece of glass before he could slit his artery open? You consider that LESS of a risk?

And I have to see about that manufacturer statement yet. So far all I have is your word, and that's frankly no evidence at all.

[karajorma]

If you need proof.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/14/children.tasers/index.html

Taser International says more than 5,000 police agencies use its product, that it is safe to use on anyone weighing at least 60 pounds.

[Bobboau]

hmm, actually looking at that situation with the kid, that might not have been such a bad idea, he was basically carving himself up with a piece of broken glass, I wouldn't say using stun guns on kids should be a common policy, but that situation, I can't think of many better ways to have done it, if you'd had tried to just grab him he might have slit his own wrists or throat.

and even if you don't agree with that it was more of a high level policy issue, cause the cop called in and asked if it was against the rules, and they said they didn't have anything, and THEN she stunned him.

[Hazaanko]

I've been tasered a fair amount of times in my life.  I would much rather get tasered versus any of the following:  Breaking/bruising a bone, a dislocation, a black eye, a punch in the gut, or even a moderately bad rugburn, etc.  That's just me and my friends' opinion, but its an honest one.

(Ooooooh I know what some of you are thinking... "Yeah, it was probably just a really low-powered taser."  In which case you would be wrong.  )

[S-99]

I'm glad that stupid **** got tazered. He was totally asking for it being all stupid like that. I mean going to a senator debate and not even being in line, runs up to the head of the line to steal the microphone and say some bs. And he wonders why the cops were on him? And he wonders why the cops were even more on him when he was going crazy to the point of tazering.

This wasn't about his rights being taken away in front of everyone, nor was this about freedom of speech being taken away. Just some stupid **** who ended up breaking the law by first breaking the rules at the senator debate thing. I absolutely hate people who get way to uppity with their rights, that's ok, they're just the next ones up to get tazered too Anyway for the cops saying that the dumb kid was inciting a riot, well, yes he was trying to incite a riot based on his behavior, actions, and stupidity. That kid majorly needs to learn how to follow the rules, hell, his parents are just as stupid anyway otherwise he wouldn't have done any of this and would have patiently waited in line. Patience is a virtue. The stupid kid appearing in court was really good too. I bet he really likes tazers now too.

As far as tazers actually killing people? Tazers work great all the time, and cops warn people that they're going to get tazered if they don't comply. Tazers are mainly for making criminals compliant if their too dumb to listen to the cops. Now of course no ones going to tazer you're grandma, or especially a person in a wheel chair (i'd want to see the wheelchair thing happen though).

Now why the cops are being investigated? Unfortunately the whole incident got caught on tape and put on tv, so what's going to happen is a whole bunch of unanswered questions from different sides of the story will appear and misconstrue **** even further, and then less and less people will be paying attention to what actually happened as opposed to who likes whose side of the story better and try to pass that off as what happened. I feel sorry for the cops who did a proper job in the video that they are now being investigated.

And who cares if that kid was handcuffed when he got tazered, he still didn't comply with the cops because he was too dumb to never stop being crazy the whole time.

[Kosh]

There was once an incident (again at my former university) about a cop who was checking some kid for drugs by looking at his eyes, but the kid had add so the cop assumed he was on something because his eyes moved often. Another kid tried to explain this, but the cop then turned and arrested him, in the process hurting his knee pretty bad.

[DiabloRojo]

Now who's putting words in someone else mouth?

Sorry, I baited you    ... or should I say 'tou'

Seriously, that's the impression I get from people that are vocally against the use of tasers in general.  That's not directed at you as I understand your wish for more discretion in their use, not abolishment.  But, they are not intended simply as a replacement for a gun or baton because of their capabilities and short-term effects.  I think their track record of saving lives and preventing injuries in situations where physical force would otherwise be required speaks for itself (especially in the case of the six year old with a death wish, under-60-lb-warning-label or no).

Now to your question: no, with conditions.  Just randomly beating on the guy (ala Rodney King) would of course be excessive.  One hit (or two if required) to an area like the abdomen to wind him would not be.  If he resists after that then he's ****ed.

Off the subject, but I saw this in the CNN story and thought it was hilarious in an extremely sad way, but noteworthy.  What a perfect example of denial and a complete lack of parenting skills... "If there's three officers, it's nothing to tell a 6-year-old holding a glass, if you feel threatened, 'Hey, here's a piece of candy, hey, here's a toy. Let the glass go,'" the boy's mother told CNN.
'Excuse me ma'am, but your son was cutting himself and threatening suicide at the age of six!  Candy and toys don't fix extreme mental and emotional problems!'

[lenard27]

This reminds me of a incident here, when a guy was pulling up a shotgun from his car and starting to aim the police. The police responded by shooting the guy in the elbow through the windshield and then subdued him. And imagine that there was somekind of minor outcry of police violence (human rights organisations) after this incident! This was a police response I can understand, the one in the link I cannot.

Mika

I agree with you...police should be allowed to shoot first and ask questions later if a gun is pulled on them. It's for their own safety.  But in the video, there really is no need for the taser.  The student wasn't a threat and there really was no need to take him out of the Q&A session. It may not have been a totally legitimate question but there are first amendment rights and such.  And John Kerry sounded like he was prepared to answer the question.

EDIT: This post kinda contradicts a post I made earlier but after thinking about it some, I gotta say, there was no need for the student to be escorted from the place, unless something happened before the video started that I didn't see at all

[S-99]

It's pretty apparent that if the cops asked that student to leave, that he wouldn't have. You can tell this just by how crazy the sob is with his stupid agenda at the kerry forum. Tazers are also used to keep people from getting even more out of line...tazers do an awesome job at making people submissive to the cops which is apparently what cops use them for when someone just wont do what they say. This guy was way out of line and resisted the cops the whole way through. They warned him that if he kept up his **** that he would get tazed. He didn't calm down, so he got tazed. 

But, upon further examination from citizens who think they are above the cops (with how much sob said he was going to get up and walk out the door), they never learn their lessons. This guy is going to get himself in trouble with the cops again in the future.

What this sob needs at the kerry forum was a high power cattle prod and several shocks from it on his belly

[Ghostavo]

I mean going to a senator debate and not even being in line, runs up to the head of the line to steal the microphone and say some bs. And he wonders why the cops were on him? And he wonders why the cops were even more on him when he was going crazy to the point of tazering.

Where the hell did you get that from? He was in line. He was in line for two whole hours. As for bull****, the senator didn't seem to mind and even regarded those questions as "important".

[TrashMan]

His time was up, he didn't want to leave and kept yelling, basicly making it impossible for others in the debate to ask their question.
So yes, he was very much disturbing public order.

[Ghostavo]

His time was up, he didn't want to leave and kept yelling, basicly making it impossible for others in the debate to ask their question.
So yes, he was very much disturbing public order.

His mic was cut, when he looked at his back out of nowhere two policemen put their arms around him without a word. If I were him I'd have freaked out too.

His "disturbing of public order" as you say was parcially caused by the policemen.

And this still doesn't explain why 6 policemen had to use a taser when even one of them seemed to have no effort handling the student (in the video one of the policemen literally carries the guy across about 10 meters or something).

[S-99]

From the sources that i read. It all said that he wasn't in line and ran to the front and stole the microphone. Why the hell else would he have cops in back of him the whole entire time he was asking a question if he hadn't done that? And actually when the guy was getting tazered kerry did start answering his question about the voting machine scandal.

Kerry gets a medal because he didn't mind the guy asking him questions. Kerry was even telling the cops that detaining the guy was unnecessary and that he'd answer his questions. Hell, the cops didn't care, the moment that guy started going crazy when he was going to be escorted out...the cops and the crazy dude were in a whole different world.

The guy who got tazered doesn't get a medal because he didn't give kerry a chance to answer his questions until he got tazered

What's really uneducated for the university for florida students to do right now is protesting against the campus cops. They're  protesting that the cops on campus shouldn't be allowed to have tazers. This is a bad idea. Tazers are a lot better than guns and police batons any day when it comes to making people compliant. If they actually succeed in making the cops there not be able to carry tazers limits the effectiveness of their campus police in a very bad way (which i highly doubt they'll succeed). But, if they did succeed, the next time a student ****s up and is non-compliant, said person is going to get something a lot worse called pepper spray. And from studying a ton of police tazering videos on youtube today after watching the UF incident (i wanted to know more about police handling tazers), i'd rather take a tazer than pepper. After you get tazered, you recover very rapidly from the tazering...this is how they are. They are the ultimate in police work for making arrestees compliant and they do as advertized successfully. This is a lot better than pepper spray, police batons, and guns. I guess UF students would rather be subdued by pepper spray or police batons since they don't want the campus police to have tazers which i find that the police used properly at the UF incident. I didn't see any excessive force happen. It took a lot of officers because that guy was going crazy and two of the officers couldn't restrain him, so a whole bunch more came in. After that the guy still wouldn't comply with the cops after he was pinned on the ground.

What i thought was really funny about the video besides, "don't taze me bro!", was the stupid red head ***** who was doing the yelling at the cops while he was getting tazered.

Unfortunately now there's people making money off of the incident dont-taze-me-bro.com. As far as tazers being successful. They are highly effective, they make people compliant without the police having to get in a fist fight brawl. Among this video being priceless, eventually the drunk driver finally submits to the cop. Man that drunk guy was stupid, but he finally complied with the cop so he was no longer a threat on the road, and if the cop didn't have a tazer, it probably would have been a brawl with the cop looking for an opportune time to slap cuffs on the bastard.

Another example of non-compliance with cops is this video. And boy, that lady is a *****, and fugly at that.

Regardless of what happens now, i feel sad for the situation in UF for the misconstruing what happened (regardless of what actually did happen...even though waht is on tape is what happened from about 4 other people in the audience at 4 different angles with cameras who all filmed the same thing), the protests, and that stupid asshole's 15 min's of fame.

Anyway, generally if cops we're going to take me away from the kerry forum, i'd just ****ing damn comply with them. Patience is a virtue, and not go all crazy on them. I mean if you do something wrong and the cops have you right there, there's no point in struggling, you're not going to get away. After that if you didn't do something wrong clear it up with the cops, don't give them a reason not to believe you. After that, if you just plain old comply with the cops period, **** goes a lot easier for you. If the cops were taking me away, i'd be like wtf too, but i'd just be quiet so **** gets cleared up faster. And with the guy struggling the way he did with like extra cops coming was so ****ing stupid. That guy has a 7 pound water head. He totally gets a darwin award because he just didn't use his brain. "Don't taze me bro!", and then he keeps resisting so he gets tazered And then, of course is everyone's negative reaction to the police saying, "****ing pigs", "popo just darn ****ed up", just such a lack of respect for police these days for the many who do awesome jobs.

[karajorma]

What's really uneducated for the university for florida students to do right now is protesting against the campus cops. They're  protesting that the cops on campus shouldn't be allowed to have tazers. This is a bad idea.

I tend to agree with you on that point. I don't have a problem with the use of tasers when the alternative is more likely to cause harm.

[Nuke]

that drunk was funny. i know of another video involving several hits with a stun gun to some guys penis, but it was pr0n so i cant link it. anyway i still cant tell if the mic hog was hit with a stun gun or a tazer. and i think their names should be reversed as a tazer looks more like a gun and actually fires a projectile, while a stungun requires direct contact to the electrodes and looks nothing like a gun.

anyway you got to cut cops some slack. they have a very short amount of time to make a decision and a screw up could cost them their jobs or worse. we can debate this all year but the cops didnt have a year. had mr dont taze me bro had a weapon, im sure that mic would look like a club at sertain angles, or maybe he had a kiester stashed explosive device, and considering a senator was present, things coulda gotten worse. maybe one of the cops didnt get their bear claw that morning. anyway they didnt have a whole lotta time to figure out what to do about the situation. mind you this is the cocaine and heroin capital of the usa, them cops have probibly seen of freaky stuff. its the job of police officers to make those split second decisions they dont have time to stop and debate the ethics of all the potential options at their disposal.

you can train responses to the usual stuff, drunk, crackhead, burgler, but you cant plan out your actions for scenarios you cant predict. no amount of training can tell a cop how to instantly come up with a plan of action in the time it takes to draw a weapon. that only comes though an innate talent or expieience (something i dont think campus cops have much when compaired to for example a harlem beat cop). the matter with the 6 year old shows a more expirienced officer who made use of patience to come up with a plan of action and even stopped to check if it was ok. anyone who grew up watching cops should know the jobs not easy. and with all jobs you have noobs and you have the expirienced, the seasond vets, and you have the elite. and if the higherups do their jobs right the right people get allocated to the right departments or the right situations.

[S-99]

Yeah after i saw a ton of the UF incident today a billion times on youtube and also looking for news reports. Some of the things that people said he shouldn't have gotten tazered because he wasn't a threat. And i was like hmmmmm. I don't really know how cops do use tazers. Youtube education, man i watched so many youtube police tazer videos today that do show how cops use tazers, you can even find cop training sessions on video on youtube where cops get trained in tazer usage. Then i found out the answer to the question that everyone had about the guy who shouldn't have been tazered unless he was a threat.

Tazers aren't used as weapons, you can't even compare a tazer to a gun or a knife or a baton. It's just used for making the non-compliant compliant. Tazers are good at preventing threats, but more mainly used compliance than anything else.