[Akalabeth Angel]

    Does Freespace Open _require_ a brand name video card? I have a computer that's only a few months old, it can run Doom3 (little laggy) and some other new games yet still when I run FS Open on it, the game will crash or basically pause for a few seconds for whatever reason. I can play through a mission, with no problems of lag or anything like that but when one Shivan Cain goes up the whole thing'll crash. Even with Wing Commander Saga, played through most of the campaign then the last mission where you're drawn away from the fleet and rush back when its under attack it'll just crash when the battle comes into view. That's the only explanation I can think of since my newer computer is like many times better than my old one which could run FS2 Retail just fine. As my new computer only has the video card which came on the motherboard, Intel graphics card or whatever it is.

[jr2]

IIRC there is a known problem with FSO and certain Intel GFX cards... make sure you have the latest drivers from www.intel.com, and if that doesn't work, try using Direct3D (D3D is know to have problems, but it can sometimes allow you to play in this circumstance, or so I've heard).

[Herra Tohtori]

Isn't the latest official build [3.6.9] D3D-neutered version that force-selects OpenGL regardless of what you select as rendering device in the Launcher?

...I'd recommend getting a real graphics card as soon as possible. GeForce 7600 GT is a relatively good option if you're on a budget.

[jr2]

Isn't the latest official build [3.6.9] D3D-neutered version that force-selects OpenGL regardless of what you select as rendering device in the Launcher?

...I'd recommend getting a real graphics card as soon as possible. GeForce 7600 GT is a relatively good option if you're on a budget.

IIRC that's going to be 3.6.10  But regardless, yeah, you need a real GFX card.

[Herra Tohtori]

Ah, I forgot that BtRL wasn't in fact using the actual 3.6.9... My bad.

Point still stands - D3D can only be used to some degree of success, it'll not work correctly for all effects.

[colecampbell666]

Onboard graphics cards are only like 1-8 Mb. Therein lies your problem. Even an X1050/9550 Radeon 256 Mb, a P4 1.5 Ghz and 512 Mb SDRAM will run everything except the AdVPs fine. And that's six years old!

[Akalabeth Angel]

   Okay, yeah I figured I'd need a new graphics card. Which is okay, I need to get one eventually anyway as I have a few games lying around (painkiller, Dawn of War) which I can't even play because I dont have a proper graphics card. Oh well, in the interim I'll just do FS2 retail

[Scourge of Ages]

This sounds like a problem I have. I have a ATI 9600 and  P4 and lots of good stuff. 3.6.9 runs perfectly with the MediaVPs, except that I get horrible slowdown when there's a big explosion. It's the blue shockwaves that bombs make that does it.
So, my questions is: is D3D or Open GL better for my card? And what features can I turn off or turn down to make the shockwaves NOT kill my system?
Thanks

[castor]

Use OpenGL, unless it crashes your comp.

For performance:
- disable environment mapping
- if you are using adveffects.vp, try without it

[colecampbell666]

The huge explosion is only if you have a lot of extra card. What speed is your P4? it sounds like your system is comparable to mine. I have a P4 1.5 Ghz, 512 Mb SDRAM 133 Mhz, a Radeon 9550 256 Mb. Mine will not run AdVPs, but it will run MVPs fine.

[Scourge of Ages]

Okay, I switched to Open GL and that seems to have fixed it. Any idea why OpenGL is better? It's software rendering isn't it?

[Herra Tohtori]

Any idea why OpenGL is better? It's software rendering isn't it?

Where you got that idea?

It's hardware rendering all right... or, well, actually all rendering is hardware rendering but in this case I assume you mean the difference between CPU and GPU rendering, right? OpenGL rendering is done by the graphics card, and it is supported by mostly all graphics card makers and (even more importantly) their drivers. It's actually mainly just a different application programming interface than Direct3D, which is part of DirectX, which is offered by Microsod... the abbreviation "OpenGL" means "Open Graphics Library".

AS to why it's better in this case, the explanation is even more simple - Direct3D hasn't been actively supported in at least a hundred years by the SCP team due to various reasons, mostly because FS2_Open is a crossplatform engine nowadays, OpenGL is a crossplatform API and D3D is Windows-exclusive... thus, maintaining D3D would require a lot of extra effort and manpower and would only benefit Windows users, and since the SCP team doesn't actully boast hordes of free D3D programmers twiddling their thumbs around the place... well, the equation is simple, and at this rate, D3D support will likely be dropped from the future builds entirely, barring unprecedented invasion of D3D programmer hordes hacking their way throught the FS2_Open code like no tomorrow.

Thus, OpenGL rendering in FS2_Open is less buggy and more efficient and crash-free than D3D. And it has normal and height mapping!

Plus, your teeth will be whiter when you don't use DirectX. Search your feelings and you know it to be true.

[Turey]

Any idea why OpenGL is better? It's software rendering isn't it?

Where you got that idea?

He's not the only one who's had this misconception:

I turned off -glow and it works now. I didn't wanna use OpenGl because it's nicer to have hardware-based graphics instead of software-based ones. Anyways, thanks for all your help!

 

[Mars]

 
  
*goes emo*

OpenGL has approximately the same performance capabilities as Direct 3D, it is also hardware rendering, but works on many platforms and is (as I understand it) easier to program for. (Bobboau pointed out my lack of understanding in his next post)

[Bobboau]

that last bit is extremely subjective.

[Mars]

I've honestly never programed for either so I wouldn't know  

Sufficed to say, Direct 3D and OpenGL are comparable, at least from a end-user POV.

[Herra Tohtori]

Well it's much easier to program OpenGL graphics rendering for Linux/Mac platforms than try and use DirectX!

[chief1983]

Augh!  Damn MS propoganda!  They're convincing people that OpenGL is software based!   Stab stab stab!  The lies are hurting my ears!

But really, yeah, OpenGL kicks some ass, it's just that Intel is too lazy to make proper support for it in their cards (even Ati's need a little work apparently).  Maybe it's just a driver issue though, and enough people telling Intel to get on the ball with it might get them to write some proper OpenGL support?

Honestly though, if they're going to gut the D3D support that some people have still had to rely on to run the game at all, it'd be nice if there was a compatible OpenGL path in the game to run on those people's cards.  Something like a really basic OpenGL 1.1 path or something, just enough to keep it playable at at least retail quality.

[chief1983]

Double post, sorry.

I did some digging on just what the deal is with the Intel cards anyway.  The wikipedia article on the GMA series of chipsets seems to explain some of it.  The chipsets are missing key components of the 3d rendering pipeline.  In addition, up until very recent ones, the best OpenGL support was 1.4.  They've only recently had 1.5 and 2.0 support added.

Also, about the video memory, that's not true.  Many of the integrated chipsets have much more, in part due to the direct access to the system ram.  You can usually configure how much is reserved in your BIOS, giving it up to 256 MB or more in some situations.  Granted, you'd only want to do that if you have a gig or more of ram, or else you'd be hurting in XP these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA

[Scourge of Ages]

Wow, excellent. That definitely cleared everything up for me. One more question: has anybody tested FSO on Vista? Do you think it'll work?